In Harmony With Nature

Wendaline wrote: I keep hearing that we're not living in harmony with nature, but I'm not sure that we are in disharmony. Okay, so sometimes human interaction has pushed out species, but that's kind of how mother nature rolls. Ants invade and kill off other critters, plants invade and crowd out other plants, viruses invade cells, etc.

We're also not the only species who drastically changes our environment. Beavers, ants, locusts, carp, etc. all have been known to cause trouble either by wiping out food sources or by flooding the land. It's not bad. It's not good. It just is.

Although, I am very much in favor of checking our behavior and trying to do better. I just don't think we're as bad as some might have us believe.

This is true about animal other than us. When ever a new species shows(for a lack of a better word) up on earht the effects are felt throughout the ecosystem. In all cases but ours this is natural.
How ever in the case of Civilization its not! These are reasons why.
- Other animals dont HUNT DOWN or DESTROY other animals for the sole purpose of killing them off. Humans of Civilization do.
- Other animals and plants may invade the territory of other life forms but they don't completely eradicate every life form in that area just to make homes for them selves.
- Ancient humans may have brought the mammoth to extinction but I doubt they new this would happen. It wasn't because of indifference. Ivory hunters know full well that every elephant they kill brings them one step closer to extinction.
- Lastly and most important we are not humanity. We do not represent humans as a whole we only represent our one culture (Civilization). There are humans that live very harmonious with nature and these people are tribal.

So yes humans do live Harmoniously with the earth but the people of Civilization don't. :dry:

Nature is indifferent to you living in harmony with it.

Its funny, because most people here poo poo Dark, Light, etc, as in the scope of the universe, this doesnt exist.

Harmony doesnt either. This symbiosis that seems to be preferred, is simply another judgment, label, etc,etc that you are placing on it yes?

So what does it matter?

You wont save the world, its not going to last forever either way.

Just like the dinosaurs.

Just like us, and everything else

You cant, nor is harmony about preserving everything as it is.

Species have been going extinct long before humans, for various reason, and yes, sometimes because of other species.

At one time, the simple introduction of free oxygen itself brought about an extinction event.

No, it didnt hunt down and destroy other species, it was simply nature doing what it does.

It was not reacting to some other species conduct of it, such things as tsunamis, hurricanes, etc,etc are not malicious, its just nature, harmony.

Its just now there is a life form with extremely high brain functions that are aware of not only what can happen to them, but what they are doing. Perhaps its easier to think its karma, but really, its just nature taking its course.

Im still gonna do like I do, and make the most out of the time I have here while I have time here.

Khaos wrote: Nature is indifferent to you living in harmony with it.

Its funny, because most people here poo poo Dark, Light, etc, as in the scope of the universe, this doesnt exist.

Harmony doesnt either. This symbiosis that seems to be preferred, is simply another judgment, label, etc,etc that you are placing on it yes?

So what does it matter?

You wont save the world, its not going to last forever either way.

Just like the dinosaurs.

Just like us, and everything else

You cant, nor is harmony about preserving everything as it is.

Species have been going extinct long before humans, for various reason, and yes, sometimes because of other species.

At one time, the simple introduction of free oxygen itself brought about an extinction event.

No, it didnt hunt down and destroy other species, it was simply nature doing what it does.

It was not reacting to some other species conduct of it, such things as tsunamis, hurricanes, etc,etc are not malicious, its just nature, harmony.

Its just now there is a life form with extremely high brain functions that are aware of not only what can happen to them, but what they are doing. Perhaps its easier to think its karma, but really, its just nature taking its course.

Im still gonna do like I do, and make the most out of the time I have here while I have time here.

Harmony isn't just about saving the world is it? The universe as we know will die and everything we've done along with it. We can either fight it ( which is disruption) or accept that and work to the best of our ability to serve the lot around us, knowing the result.

Which could be seen as harmony? no?

@Khaos

In the case of harmony it matters because out of all the life forms on the planet we're very close to being the first ones to kill ourselves off. I would very much not want that to happen.

How ever it seems as though you dont actually want to talk about harmony you want to talk about why things do or do not matter and the judgements we place on things.

You could say that if a building has a poor foundation and will collapse in time, just let it fall. How ever if its your friends/ family living in the building I doubt they would agree with you.

Also if it REALLY doesn't matter Khaos, why'd you bother posting anything in the first place. :dry: Most of us will still think in very much the same way after we're done replying to your argument invitation. So why do YOU even bother?

Daniel L. wrote: @Khaos

In the case of harmony it matters because out of all the life forms on the planet we're very close to being the first ones to kill ourselves off. I would very much not want that to happen.

How ever it seems as though you dont actually want to talk about harmony you want to talk about why things do or do not matter and the judgements we place on things.

You could say that if a building has a poor foundation and will collapse in time, just let it fall. How ever if its your friends/ family living in the building I doubt they would agree with you.

Also if it REALLY doesn't matter Khaos, why'd you bother posting anything in the first place. :dry: Most of us will still think in very much the same way after we're done replying to your argument invitation. So why do YOU even bother?

Because this is a discussion forum, and just because there is one person, who does not hold the same perception as the majority doesn't mean that their views aren't worthy. If one doesn't think so, it is only a full cup that would decide it.

"Living in harmony with nature".... "Not living in harmony with nature"

What in this universe does not come from nature?

What does it mean to "not live in harmony" with that which does not stop being what it is regardless of how you behave?

What if our idea of "not being in harmony with nature" is simply part of the harmony of nature after all?

Proteus wrote:
Because this is a discussion forum, and just because there is one person, who does not hold the same perception as the majority doesn't mean that their views aren't worthy. If one doesn't think so, it is only a full cup that would decide it.

"Living in harmony with nature".... "Not living in harmony with nature"

What in this universe does not come from nature?

What does it mean to "not live in harmony" with that which does not stop being what it is regardless of how you behave?

What if our idea of "not being in harmony with nature" is simply part of the harmony of nature after all?

If all things come from nature and this is a discussion forum than its completely natural for me to have an opinion about what Khaos said.

Proteus if your suggesting that its natural for matter to take different forms of matter than you're very much correct. Every thing in the universe does this including the vacuum(space) which has a density of 10 to the 55 gram. In that case things like acid rain, deforestation, overpopulation , chemical weapons, pollution, euthanasia, wars, landfills, etc..
are all natural.

What does it mean to not live in harmony. Well there are a set of rules that are followed by all living things and to not live by those rules would be living out of harmony. If your existence brings pain and suffering to all other things around you while the things around you do not do this than you're very much out of harmony with the things around you. Not sure how much clearer I can make this... :huh:

Thank you Master Daniel. I always learn new things from you every time we talk.

What does it mean to not live in harmony. Well there are a set of rules that are followed by all living things and to not live by those rules would be living out of harmony. If your existence brings pain and suffering to all other things around you while the things around you do not do this than you're very much out of harmony with the things around you. Not sure how much clearer I can make this... :huh:

Well, I'm not sure I quite understand yet though...
Who defines if pain and suffering is not part of the harmony of nature?

Proteus wrote: Who defines if pain and suffering is not part of the harmony of nature?

Pain and suffering is a natural part of harmony but only to alert us to that which we should avoid in order to not feel pain and suffering. If pain and suffering were the state in which things should remain than we WOULD always be in pain and suffering.

I just hope we're not arguing semantics. :whistle: Between things that are common in living nature and things that are natural in the universe.

Daniel L. wrote: Pain and suffering is a natural part of harmony but only to alert us to that which we should avoid in order to not feel pain and suffering. If pain and suffering were the state in which things should remain than we WOULD always be in pain and suffering.

Hmm... yes, I understand what you're saying. "Naturally", pain and suffering is something we dislike and tend to want to avoid. How much of that tendency is simply ego-based, I don't know. But I guess, on the foundational level of reality, pain and suffering is still an equally valid and necessary part of the harmony of nature, since, I don't really know how I would know what comfort and happiness is, without the existence of pain and suffering. I usually find myself looking at these topics like an author looks at his stories, where conflict is a key element to make the story worth reading, and neither good or bad is unnecessary for it.

I think its been quite some time since we the human race fell out of sync with our environment. Try as we might, we seem to do far more harm than good...