noun: religion

u•ni•ty
noun: unity1. the state of being united or joined as a whole.


Whether people want to be a part of the same whole or not is mute. The fact of the matter is we are. We are all a part of the same whole.

I am speaking plainly and answering your question. I guess the answer is either not the one you’re looking for or my answer is not plain to you. Either way, I am happy to help however I can.

13. Jedi cultivate empathy. We try to view things from another’s perspective making us sensitive listeners. We provide the confidence people need when talking through their difficulties and we share our learning with those who would benefit. We do this to help create a more harmonious society.

I don’t know a lot of people that “reject” our doctrine that are practicing members of this temple. I would be interested in what led you to believe some of our members have rejected our doctrine.

Ah, well...if you want to claim unity on those grounds...you got me. :woohoo:

But unity on the whole does not mean unity of the specific...and I'm looking at the specific.

I would be interested in what led you to believe some of our members have rejected our doctrine.

I don't want to call out names, that's not cool. But if you look through my last post, where I stated the phrases in "quotes"...those are exact/approximate quotes from either the forums or chat as either told to me or expressed to others - hence said position. - not that all have such feelings; silence on the matter is neither supportive of or for my stance. I simply don't find (yet) the same conviction for the doctrine that I find against it. :laugh:

Ok. That makes sense. It's the general dismissal and attitude. The lack of claim and the the "why bother having it if no one likes or uses it". I asked these same questions a while back as well. The only real unifying thing there is here is general acceptance of diffrences, opposition to standards and the words "be kind" but even that goes by the way side now and then.

Before you explained it, I thought you were asking "why have dogma if you're not going to be dogmatic?"

I find the unity here is not one of common belief, action or code, but one of common choice. To be unified.

Perhaps you misunderstand...

We are a community of individuals who find our own meanings and definitions...

We come here, seeking similar minds and thoughts...

Is this doctrine our final, forever and ever, incarnation of it? I doubt it...

Actually, I believe it just was altered a bit not too long ago...

but when I hear that: "it's basically worthless," "I don't follow that at all," "it's b.s.," "I can't remember what I wrote in there," etc...that is what is disturbing to me.

me too...

I would be curious as to who has said these things... Knights, guests, Councilors....

You have issues with the doctrine, yet still completed the requirements for membership... Thus, making you a 'jedi according to TOTJO'...

Who then decides it?

What? Who gets called a Jedi? Who am I to tell you you are not a Jedi? How presumptuous, and elitist of me...

of course the individual... You do not need totjo to call yourself one... Have at it..

All that one gains by joining our organization, is the legal ability to say you are a jedi..

I simply don't find (yet) the same conviction for the doctrine that I find against it.

Well, currently 5 pages of replies, 10 posts per page, so say 35-40 posts are trying to explain...

I dont know how much talking you did in the chat, found on the forums, or whatever method I have forgotten...

But, I am talked out on this subject...

You keep seeming to want evidence of support of the doctrine... When you are in Springfield, Illinois, and have some time to kill, I can show you how I do it...

I dont post my living it, cause I feel 1. it goes against the whole humility thing, and, 2. That would be to reflect on the past, and I am a very 'now' person...

I will still poke my head in here and read, but, I now feel we have reached the start of the circle, again, lol...

Should you wish to delve further into me, and wish for some conversation with quite a few 'lol's in them, hit me up...

So, enjoy the conversation all...

Right... :lol:

And you seem to think we are not...

I think that is not for you to decide...

As are just internet names to you, so are you to us...

Thats exactly the BS im talking about.

Thanks for making my point.

Your more concerned about staying ambiguous than actually having a conversation.

Its certainly up for me to decide anything I wish, and unlike most here, I am in fact decisive.

Of course, I give you more respect apparently, as I assume there is more than just an internet name involved with those I engage. I imagine there is a somewhat intelligent, sensitive, individual behind that name. A four dimensional(at least) being who is actually engaged on some level. If that is the way you think of those you respond too though, well,then ill keep it in mind.

Though I imagine that attitude has alot to do with the way things are around here, as you dont even treat people as people.

What? Who gets called a Jedi? Who am I to tell you you are not a Jedi? How presumptuous, and elitist of me...

of course the individual... You do not need totjo to call yourself one... Have at it..

All that one gains by joining our organization, is the legal ability to say you are a jedi

Lol, and so its pretty much meanlingless, if all that one needs to become a Jedi is say so. Haha, who knows what type of people you have made your "peers". Yet I imagine in day to day life you would pick those you know with a bit more of a discerning eye.

Apparently the internet is not condusive to mindfulness, common sense, or quality control.

Unity born of apathy is a fairly sad way to go about it though.

Khaos wrote:

Right... :lol:

And you seem to think we are not...

I think that is not for you to decide...

As are just internet names to you, so are you to us...

Thats exactly the BS im talking about.

Thanks for making my point.

Your more concerned about staying ambiguous than actually having a conversation.

Its certainly up for me to decide anything I wish, and unlike most here, I am in fact decisive.

Of course, I give you more respect apparently, as I assume there is more than just an internet name involved with those I engage. I imagine there is a somewhat intelligent, sensitive, individual behind that name. A four dimensional(at least) being who is actually engaged on some level. If that is the way you think of those you respond too though, well,then ill keep it in mind.

Though I imagine that attitude has alot to do with the way things are around here, as you dont even treat people as people.

What? Who gets called a Jedi? Who am I to tell you you are not a Jedi? How presumptuous, and elitist of me...

of course the individual... You do not need totjo to call yourself one... Have at it..

All that one gains by joining our organization, is the legal ability to say you are a jedi

Lol, and so its pretty much meanlingless, if all that one needs to become a Jedi is say so. Haha, who knows what type of people you have made your "peers". Yet I imagine in day to day life you would pick those you know with a bit more of a discerning eye.

Apparently the internet is not condusive to mindfulness, common sense, or quality control.

Unity born of apathy is a fairly sad way to go about it though.

Decisive? I tried to stay out of this... "conversation," but that word pulled me in.

Decisive: having the power or quality of deciding.

how then, are you the only one who is decisive?

we all have the ability to decide...are you saying that we do not?

Lol, and so its pretty much meaningless, if all that one needs to become a Jedi is say so.

and is that not the same with all religions? I could say I'm a Christian right now and that wont mean that I am.

it seems that you find Jestor's answers ambiguous bull...but i find your arguments just as bad. Are you actually looking for an answer, or a debate?

Khaos wrote: Lol, and so its pretty much meanlingless, if all that one needs to become a Jedi is say so. Haha, who knows what type of people you have made your "peers". Yet I imagine in day to day life you would pick those you know with a bit more of a discerning eye.

Apparently the internet is not condusive to mindfulness, common sense, or quality control.

Unity born of apathy is a fairly sad way to go about it though.

Of course the lable of Jedi is meaningless. Its just a word. One picked because of its "this is kinda sorta more or less what I mean" quality. And it will forever be meaningless to you unless you dig deeper than the surface of it. I notice that you are still a guest here...

Quality control? We have around 3000 people who join this community in a year (based on 2012 annual report) and less than 50 who are ranked as Knight or above. And not every person who is apprenticed becomes a knight.

Those who actually put in the effort get to know their "peers" pretty well, and many of them are outstanding people of great character and value.

Perhaps you should consider getting to know us a little better before presuming to know us.

Khaos wrote:

we are each individual and I respect what makes you, you.

Unless its out of line with the "core philosophy" anyway.

The only thing ive really seen as a core anything is that you all seem to think your Jedi, but what makes a Jedi seems to be whatever someone wants it to mean...

What about the quote Richard Irvine made?

Darkness is about the individual?

don't we do the same thing?