noun: religion

I posted the following thought in another thread:

I would challenge that this is more certainly not a religion, and more a collection of like-minded individuals that want to do their own thing under an umbrella of 'jedi'.

To which Jestor replied:

re·li·gion
riˈlijən
noun
noun: religion
1.the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
"ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
-a particular system of faith and worship.
"the world's great religions"
-a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
"consumerism is the new religion"

synonyms: faith, belief, worship, creed; More
plural noun: religions

As the definition of exactly what a religion is is still up in the air, I prefer the one in the bold...

So, even if I dont refer you to the doctrine, I might happen to believe it... It there for you to find, and discover for yourself...I am not here to convince anyone it is right for them...

However, should you wish to have a discussion on a particular topic, I am all ears, er, fingers, lol...

Hence the new thread!

Okay, so...the definition in bold:
-a particular system of faith and worship.

What exactly is this system of faith and worship if not the Doctrine of the TotJO?

Further...faith in what exactly?

Faith in the Force? If so, then what exactly is the Force? If not, then what is this faith in? If the Force, then what is that (yes, I am aware of the vague description of it in the Doctrine - my point is that it's too open ended to provide guidance)?

Worship of what? The Force - see above? Something else - then what exactly?

Where can one find these answers if not the Doctrine of the TotJO? If the answers are made up by the individual to their liking, then what continuity can there be if any?

Thus...it is within this Doctrine that one should be able to look and find these answers, no?

Yet...I keep hearing/seeing that each to welcome to what they want in regards to these things and at the same time get a nifty "I'm a Jedi" title. That seems counter productive and rather too open ended.

If the above bold definition of religion is used, then while one might not be here to "convince anyone it is right for them," there is most certainly a truth(s) that are held with the system of beliefs (doctrine) of the "religion."

In short...what i'm not seeing is a whole lot of people using the Doctrine of the TotJO to carry on about their "faith and worship." What I am seeing, is a lot of people doing whatever they want, and calling it Jediism....which a religion most certainly does not make, imo.

Thoughts?

I have found religion to simply be a set of practices that are associated with a particular mythology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4vbPfLd6c0



shhhh....

Indeed so Andy.

The point here though is that TotJO has labeled itself as a "religion," and thus has associated itself with a particular mythology - the Doctrine of the TotJO. Which, seems to be followed seldom, and referred to even less.

(just trying to grasp the overall aspects of it all - and currently seems like chasing ghosts)

Ah yes Proteus..."nothing."

Well played.

However, if that is the case, then that would invalidate your apprenticeship, or in the least make it arbitrary. :evil:

That is due to the fact no one has felt the need to to define what those practices are. (at totjo anyway)

JohnsonMD wrote: Ah yes Proteus..."nothing."

Well played.

However, if that is the case, then that would invalidate your apprenticeship, or in the least make it arbitrary. :evil:

Invalidate it in what way?

It's certainly not arbitary... except for the days and times I'd like it to be.

Andy - Agreed. However, if one subscribes to the definition of religion (as above) then those things must be defined to call it such.

Proteus - If the secret of the religion is "nothing," then any practice there of is essentially nothing...since there is no basis for belief. Given, I am using the KungFu Panda reference. That said, if you really meant something along the lines of Zenshin or Zanshin, that is entirely a different matter.

JohnsonMD wrote: Indeed so Andy.

The point here though is that TotJO has labeled itself as a "religion," and thus has associated itself with a particular mythology - the Doctrine of the TotJO. Which, seems to be followed seldom, and referred to even less.

(just trying to grasp the overall aspects of it all - and currently seems like chasing ghosts)

Actually the mythology we are based on (as you would learn in the IP), is every mythology, including our own personal mythologies of every form as well. Our teachings are not of the mythology itself, but on the essence and purpose behind the mere existence of any mythology at all.

Think a bit more deeper here MD... and you'll get it.

JohnsonMD wrote: Proteus - If the secret of the religion is "nothing," then any practice there of is essentially nothing...since there is no basis for belief. Given, I am using the KungFu Panda reference. That said, if you really meant something along the lines of Zenshin or Zanshin, that is entirely a different matter.

Refer to the Tao Te Ching for clarity of my meaning.

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9/phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html