Jedi Bush-trackers...

I was thinking… I have a cold forged, rifled barrel on my air rifle with a 1 in 11 inch twist which is probably different from a lot of air rifles. It is a completion air rifle designed to handle the velocity of the alloy rds. Maybe that is why it sounds strange to you. (assuming it sounds strange to you)

Far be it from me to tell people what to shoot or how. I was just explaining what I use and have.

Wescli Wardest wrote: I haven’t had any accuracy problems using it and I fire out to 50 yrds with the PBA Platinum.

Just for popping aluminum cans in the back yrd the scope is close enough not to cause misses at that range. Even with the grain and trajectory difference. So I don’t bother changing that either.

Now when I use my rifle (Remington .30-06) I make my own rounds for it and have an extensive D.O.P.E. (Data On Personal Equipment) I have tracked and logged several rds over range, temp, barometric pressure, altitude, elevation… and I keep that scope zeroed @ 300 yrds. So, I understand your concern for the difference in grain weight and speed for the air rifle. But for what I use it for it is more than accurate enough.

Most pellet ammunition loses enough kinetic energy beyond 50 yrds to NOT be a human hunting solution. So the way I have it set up is very accurate and dependable for what I do with it and the cheap pellets allow me to use the pellet rifle often enough for my finger to remember the trigger break without burning through the more expensive ammunition.

Speaking of trigger breaks, I have never been “happy” with the trigger break on my air rifle. But since it has always done the job I just go with it.

It's true that most pellet rifles aren't effective past 50 yards. I know that my particular rifle is accurate up to 150 yards while retaining most of its kinetic energy, however I am only comfortable shooting up to 50 yards as that is the extent of my practice with scoped rifles.

I may just have to try the PBA ammo, as I know that gamo produces the raptors for the .25 rifles. Since my gun is rated at 1090FPS with led ammo around 25 grains, It will probably get a boost of 200-300 fps with an alloy pellet rated at around 16-18 grains. My only concern is energy transfer, and whether the lighter pellet will transfer most of it's energy when breaking through the skull of the animal I shot, or while traveling through the internal organs. I have no doubt the led pellets of a heavier weight would do the job, as I have seen them demonstrated in hunts.

Unfortunately I do not have ballistic gel, nor the means of acquiring and using it in order to test the penetration of the alloy pellets.

It would be nice to have ballistic gel for sure. I bet we could buy it... I don't think it's a restricted item.

Using the .22 I doubt you need much more speed then you already have. And the heavier pellet will retain more of its energy much longer than the .177 will. This is why I push for such high velocities to begin with. .177 beyond 50 yrds just loses so much speed and begins to drop like a rock. Where the .22 should have a smoother deceleration over a longer trajectory. You won’t have as flat of a trajectory over the short range but for longer distance you will be far better off.

When I say that they are NOT a humane hunting solution beyond 50 yrds, I am referring to the .177 cal. Unless you’re targeting wrens they really lack the kinetic energy to cause cavitation in the body or penetration through bone. I think the .22 cal should be able to reach out twice as far and retain those abilities.

There is a new rds/pellet for .22 that looks like a .22 rimfire slug and has the same grain weight. If I had a .22 air rifle I would so be testing it! If I can find it I will post a link to it for you. Just in case you get curious about it.

I have no idea how far the accurate range is for my air rifle. But that is partly because I have owned it for over a decade and can’t remember the manufacturer specs and as a general rule I do not fire at things beyond what I feel is a good range for it. I may have to go out and play with it one day and see how far I can accurately shoot with it… for fun.

Oh, you know what!?!? If you get another 200-300 fps out of your air rifle you will be pushing the pellet the same velocity as the .22 rimfire. Not the higher velocity ones, but you will be in the velocity range of that round. How cool is that!!!!

Air rifle technology has come a long way since they came out for sure!

Wescli Wardest wrote: It would be nice to have ballistic gel for sure. I bet we could buy it... I don't think it's a restricted item.

Using the .22 I doubt you need much more speed then you already have. And the heavier pellet will retain more of its energy much longer than the .177 will. This is why I push for such high velocities to begin with. .177 beyond 50 yrds just loses so much speed and begins to drop like a rock. Where the .22 should have a smoother deceleration over a longer trajectory. You won’t have as flat of a trajectory over the short range but for longer distance you will be far better off.

When I say that they are NOT a humane hunting solution beyond 50 yrds, I am referring to the .177 cal. Unless you’re targeting wrens they really lack the kinetic energy to cause cavitation in the body or penetration through bone. I think the .22 cal should be able to reach out twice as far and retain those abilities.

There is a new rds/pellet for .22 that looks like a .22 rimfire slug and has the same grain weight. If I had a .22 air rifle I would so be testing it! If I can find it I will post a link to it for you. Just in case you get curious about it.

I have no idea how far the accurate range is for my air rifle. But that is partly because I have owned it for over a decade and can’t remember the manufacturer specs and as a general rule I do not fire at things beyond what I feel is a good range for it. I may have to go out and play with it one day and see how far I can accurately shoot with it… for fun.

Oh, you know what!?!? If you get another 200-300 fps out of your air rifle you will be pushing the pellet the same velocity as the .22 rimfire. Not the higher velocity ones, but you will be in the velocity range of that round. How cool is that!!!!

Air rifle technology has come a long way since they came out for sure!

That's all pretty cool, especially the bit about being in the same velocity range as a rimfire rifle. The only thing though is I have a .25 caliber rifle, not a .22, so I wouldn't be able to use that .22 slug as it wouldn't fit the chamber.

I watched a video a short time ago, where it said that getting hit with a .177 would be like getting hit with a marble, a .22 like getting hit with a golf ball, and a .25 like getting hit with a cue/pool ball.

.25!!! I didn't even know they made air rifles in .25 that's pretty cool. I'm sure you wrote .25 somewhere, but my brain read it as .22.

I don't know anything about the .25 air rifles. I would think that so long as the ballistic coefficient didn't create excessive drag then you would still be able to retain a lot of kinetic energy over a longer distance. But that would be a guess and at best an assumption. I really don't know anything about them.

Like I said in a previous post, I haven’t messed with it much over the last few years because my interests have taken me elsewhere.

Do you have any data for that cal? Or more importantly, how do you like it? What kind of shot groups are you maintaining at range? Do you know what the energy transfer is? Or how many inches it takes to transfer energy? I would be curious to find out.

I have considered getting a .22 for a couple of years now, but just haven’t found one I really like.

Wescli Wardest wrote: .25!!! I didn't even know they made air rifles in .25 that's pretty cool. I'm sure you wrote .25 somewhere, but my brain read it as .22.

I don't know anything about the .25 air rifles. I would think that so long as the ballistic coefficient didn't create excessive drag then you would still be able to retain a lot of kinetic energy over a longer distance. But that would be a guess and at best an assumption. I really don't know anything about them.

Like I said in a previous post, I haven’t messed with it much over the last few years because my interests have taken me elsewhere.

Do you have any data for that cal? Or more importantly, how do you like it? What kind of shot groups are you maintaining at range? Do you know what the energy transfer is? Or how many inches it takes to transfer energy? I would be curious to find out.

I have considered getting a .22 for a couple of years now, but just haven’t found one I really like.

On the rifle I have, the Hatsan BT-65SB, I am maintaining about dime sized groups with the 25.39 grain JSB Diablo Exact pellets I am using. The rifle is advertised as having 52FPE, at the advertised velocity, although I have not tested this.

For .22 or larger, you are better with a single pump or PCP style air rifle, as they are going to deliver better performance with that particular weight pellet than a break barrel will. As far as particular models go, the Benjamin Marauder seems to be wildly popular, and comes in .177, .22, and .25. I still personally prefer the Hatsan's however, as they are tested with heavier grain led pellets, and most have removable air chambers which can be swapped out with a spare container as to avoid bringing an air pump on the range / in the field.

The weather was crappy today, so I decided to make a slingshot and pound to hold the ammo for it.

The handle is wrapped in black 550 cord, and the sling and pouch are both made out of genuine leather. It also has a small loop at the bottom that can fit a carabinir to strap the slingshot to a pack or belt loop.

This is my b.o.b (bug out bag)..not everything that goes in it is pictured...I've left out the contents of my first aid kit, firearms,ammo, additional clothing supplies and food/drink....

Pictured is the pack, tarp tie downs, multi function eating tool, can opener, saw, lensatic compass, fire tool, spare socks, clippers, pooper paper, crossbow, skinning knife and freezer bags (many uses for them)

I have been writing down kind of a simple… “How To” field guide for bush craft in my spare time. If anyone has anything they would like to contribute I would love to hear it.

Also, I am going to make it available to everyone when I’m finally done with it in this thread. It will not be the definite authority on the subject… especially since I am no authority. And I believe that as we grow so does our knowledge, skill set and ability. And with that so will our kits, tolls and things we carry change to accommodate those changes. But it may be a good starting point or give ideas to some.

Out of curiosity, would illustrations help? Pictures that maybe show what I’m talking about… just looking for opinions and ideas.

Pictures would probably be useful....

Now to add: make sure you can identify poison oak, sumac, and ivy...so you don't accidentally wipe with it....