Is Reiki a form of Force power?
If you want something that isn't that, you can find it somewhere else, but trying to find it here will literally just waste your time.
A true teacher would never tell you what to do. But he would give you the knowledge with which you could decide what would be best for you to do
I won't speak for others but, for clarity, I have never once invited you to leave
Fyxe wrote: I have also been invited many times by you guys and guys like steamboat to leave this site because I don't believe like they do... but, um this is a religion right?
Where does it say that religion isn't supposed to make sense? No, religion and science are not the same thing but that doesn't mean that they are incompatible. It's possible to be a Christian and also understand that gravity is a thing.
Fyxe wrote: Something that is supposed to not make sense? Like logic and science are not religion are they?
There's plenty of room for mysticism in your life without denying basic facts.
Fyxe wrote: I want mysticism and I want to experience weird stuff as religion..or spirituality?
I don't pretend to believe in a religion, I actually DO believe in it. I literally gave you a link to my understanding of The Force in an earlier post.
Fyxe wrote: You guys are reducing this experience to just programs and I seem to be a broken program now?? It makes me sad. Why do you guys pretend to believe in a religion that you dont actually believe in? Why am I the one asked to leave this religious temple? You guys should leave of you dont believe in the jedi myth. That's just my thoughts and I dont u derstand why you are here?
I practice Jediism in line with the Doctrine of this Temple and in line with how it has been taught to me by my Training Master, who is probably one of the most mystic/spiritual/kooky people I know (love you really Maitre). But I don't deny basic facts to try and pretend the world works differently to how it actually does.
Fyxe wrote: Dont you do mystical healing? You said before you do somewhere. Like reike was child play for you? So why do you keep telling me not to believe in the force?
It isn't "mystical" healing. And Reiki is people arriving at the right answer by using fictional solutions. Nobody's telling you "not to believe in the force", we're telling you--quite f***ing plainly--that we don't do that sort of thing HERE. I don't know how many more times I have to repeat myself, but this is not a place where we discuss those kinds of matters, and we are probably not the kind of Jedi Temple you're looking for.
Try the Realists, maybe?
I'd say it's more of an internet forum...
Fyxe wrote: This place is a temple right?
Can't house much if a house is not what it is but even without such silly pedantry, no, TOTJO hosts message exchanges between registered users. The question what it means for something to be a religion and whether or not Jediism is an example of it are explored in the IP and often times discussed on TOTJO's boards. It is by no means a settled question, but what I think a large proportion of active TOTJO users would probably agree on is that what ever Jediism is, it is a thing within or between each one of its adherents more than housed by any temple. Would all of us think the way each of us does had we not been around on TOTJO? Probably not, seeing how much interfacing with other people influences how we think and believe, and adding also that TOTJO actually provides teaching materials, i.e. materials specifically designed to make people think and evolve.
And that temple houses an actual religion called jediism?
Wow, what? Citation desperately needed! If anything, I recall welcoming and inviting you to stay. Can't recall Brick or steam directing you out.
I have also been invited many times by you guys and guys like steamboat to leave this site because I don't believe like they do...
If that is part of your definition of religion, then no, in my opinion Jediism in my understanding wouldn't qualify because in my understanding it is not supposed to not make sense. This is not to say that it has to be so for you also. You can have a different opinion and if you can be a good sport about discussing it I'll be glad to engage with you on that subject. There is no central authority dictating what Jediism has to be to any one of us and there would be no point in a discussion forum if we were all required to agree on such things.
... but, um this is a religion right? Something that is supposed to not make sense?
Why do you get to determine for the rest of us what is or isn't a way to be Jedi? Who elected you to represent the Jedi at large?
Why do you guys pretend to believe in a religion that you dont actually believe in?
Noone did. The only one telling anyone that they should leave is you, actually:
Why am I the one asked to leave this religious temple?
It's okay not to understand. If you wish to change that, feel free to ask.
You guys should leave of you dont believe in the jedi myth. That's just my thoughts and I dont u derstand [sic] why you are here?
If you don't have a problem, then whence cometh thine whining?
The home page says you believe in the force. I believe in the force. You dont so I dont seem to be the one with the problem here.
It's trivially easy and cheap to just copy text off the front page. But have you spent any time considering what is being said in that definition? What does it mean, and does it only mean one thing? Even if we set aside our freedom to make up any other definition in its stead, I don't think it's quite as unambiguous and clear a dogma as you seem to be asking for. Like even the very first property, "ubiquitous" can already mean so many things. On the face of it, one would think it has to be something present in all places or all things, maybe at all times, too. Maybe it is all-present in some platonic sense, like an idea or an abstract object is, and its ubiquity is then some kind of trivial obviousness rather than any sort of physical-like presence like a kind of all-penetrating substance. Moving on it is said to be "metaphysical". Well, this can mean a number of things, too. On the one hand it can mean beyond physical in the sense that it is non-physical, not interacting with observable nature, placing it similar to that platonic ubiquity mentioned above. Seeing as physis means nature, something that is metaphysical could also be something beyond nature, something supernatural, like the sort of wizarding energy you seem to be seeking after. It could also be metaphysical in the sense that it is beyond physics, i.e. natural per se but somehow yet outside of what any study of nature can take an account of. Maybe this is talking about metaphysics as the philosophy of physics, as the study of the discipline of physics much like meta-ethics is the discussion about the structure of ethics as a discipline in its own right or meta-logic being the study of what abstract foundations can hold the construction of a logical calculus, i.e. how logics generally work.
The Force, a ubiquitous and metaphysical power that a Jedi (a follower of Jediism) believes to be the underlying, fundamental nature of the universe.
What other definition do you follow?
We could go on and on. As I say, copying a sentence is cheap. Calling it a definition is cheap. Declaring that it means something is cheap, too. But actually understanding what it says, or deciding what it says to you and recognizing what else it may mean if we don't dogmatically enforce one interpretation over all others, that's what makes it interesting. That is why we are here. Because it isn't just one thing to all of us even if it may be to any one of us individually. If all was clear and settled, this would be a dry and boring place indeed!
As I said before, and as steam is also pointing out to you, TOTJO is not Hogwarts, and while you are welcome to believe in an practice magic on your own, you will not get training in any that is officially recognized or endorsed by TOTJO as an organization. There is plenty more we do offer though and I'm sure the place would get all the richer for every new contributor like yourself joining in.
I have not done a thorough search for literature on Reiki in general. Scanning over the study you post, though, there doesn't appear to be much of a conflict between either the sceptics' positions voiced here or the studies I linked. The non-placebo effects the meta-study points out (unless I have overlooked something which is entirely possible) are the general mental and physical benefits of relaxation which is the one non-placebo way critics here and in the literature admit Reiki can be beneficial - along with various forms of meditation and prayer. The study claims to only be referencing literature that has itself withstood peer review and satisfies further requirements and I didn't bother "checking the maths" on the meta-study myself either because I expect that any referee reviewing a paper the central point of which is the statistical analysis would have insisted that what ever final version they would approve the publication of would be without gross computational errors.
Many practitioners and proponents claim however that Reiki is a viable and effective treatment for concrete medical conditions that go well beyond fatigue or stress. Some even go so far as to say that it can reliably cure things where established medical treatments are known to be successful in less than 100% or cases. Those are the controversial claims. A study pointing out that yet another form of relaxation is not entirely without beneficial health effects sometimes is not really a grand argument in that debate, and to agree on that point is not much of a concession seeing as it was never the seriously criticized claim to begin with.
Some care for clarity should be taken here though, I find. Yes, it is entirely possible for someone to be both religious and a scientifically minded person, even a scientist. This goes well beyond some mild form of believing that the Nazarene's teachings contain worthy instructions to at least ponder from time to time (to stick with the Christianity example) and accepting gravity at the same time, too. There are people who regularly publish even, say, astrophysical research through peer review and preach about young earth creationism in what free time their scientific careers leave them.
Brick wrote: No, religion and science are not the same thing but that doesn't mean that they are incompatible. It's possible to be a Christian and also understand that gravity is a thing.
That being said, I would insist that religion and science are properly incompatible in a more general sense. The ways they go about making claims or coming to believe them are fundamentally opposite of one another. Applying scientific methodology leads to rejecting most well formed religious claims either tentatively or completely almost all of the time. Meanwhile offering up overtly religious argumentation in a scientific report is a near guarantee for the paper in question to never make it past any even mildly respected journal's editor, let alone going out to fellow researchers for review.
While it is possible to believe religious and scientific claims at the same time in some cases, the religious and the scientific methods of analyzing them could hardly be any less alike...
I knew you were going to pick me up on this even as I typed it
Gisteron wrote: Some care for clarity should be taken here though, I find.
I agree that the two would be incompatible in the context of academic/scientific research
@Steam I think that point-by-point super post might be efficient in helping to de-rail some of this verbal volleys. and i'm not quite sure why THIS isn't a place to learn about Reiki/Force Healing?
@TheDude thanks for linking that. I'd like to see more discussion on that if anyone is game.
@Fyxe I agree with your definition; it's too bad we hesitate to define things here, or at least, make or assume "working definitions" for particular topics.
@Brick Instead of a link, can you just type out, here in this discussion, a one-liner definition for your Force-paradigm? Perhaps going point by point, or alphabetically/numerically, you can lay out a logical line of thought that debunks the "mystical" or pseudoscientific assumptions held in this thread?
The Force is with you, always.
Fyxe wrote: The Force, a ubiquitous and metaphysical power that a Jedi (a follower of Jediism) believes to be the underlying, fundamental nature of the universe.
What other definition do you follow?
Today - Modern Jeddist claim and say the believe in the Force. That’s cool but ya gotta get out that if it’s the cinema Force or your choice of Force- two different things. You can choose a balance of both or find more definitions of the Force for your self or even create them your self. By sharing and learning we can - doesn't mean we will- learn from one another what we each call the Force. There are 7.7 billion people around us- some definitions won’t be even near our own. That’s real life. A Jeddist needs balance - with the wind the earth their faith and with others. Our definition can be any definition we choose. That’s our right as human beings.
My definition of the Force is as follows ... from
“A Jeddist book of change” by - Carlos ( me lol it will be out in the Temple soon i promise it’s in its final draft stage)
You can do the same - any one can.
1. As a human and as a chosen Jeddist, we all have the privilege I where and what we title THE FORCE. It can be the idea or and the way or ebb and flow or practice - either for character, guidance, or even lead. Some parts we may not be able to explain. That’s ok too. No one Force may be like the other. Simply put the Force is that which we choose to merit, by this it will never be the same. Our beginnings and creation can depend on choice to seek that which can never be named and experienced fully. These are steps toward understanding.
End of the first chapter.
Edit : this can include any choice others and you - make. Tv books - myths - story’s - ways - practices - songs - ideas... it’s made that way to make choices or to not. Always your choice. Yes it’s open wide like that but as a human being - you and we all - have that right. The big dilemma we can face is to make those choices then - live with and in them with others NOT like us. Real talk it’s called life but our paths can wind and turn and fork and go up down and back around and a lot of ways we never can guess. My faith has helped me greatly and my family and those around me. Rhetorical- What does your faith make? Force be with you . Your choice ! Smiley face.
To get back to the OP ... can this or that be the Force - if some one chooses it to be - yes.