Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

ren wrote: The "thinking" definition seems rather limited tzb. There is imo far more thinking to do than problem solving.

Yes agreed, really. The useful definition there was of worry... worry is always about something (in the way they characterise thinking as about a problem), but the distinction for me is that worry is useless, thinking is useful. Discretion and focus are key factors in avoiding worry and achieving meaningful thought, in this context of tackling problems.

ren wrote: I guess when I use "worry" i mean, "think about something i care about being harmed in some way", whilst to me thinking could be "I wonder what the universe is made out of" sort of thing.

Sounds like part of what I'd define as care. I think you can care about something and both worry or think about it... the former is useless, the latter useful.

Worry by many definitions (evidently not the one you subscribe to) is rather a worthless process of filling one's time with abstract thoughts, arbitrary scenarios the rehearsing of which adds little or nothing to one's readiness to tackle them. Worry only serves to muddy the waters, and is rooted in anxiety rather than readiness or the potential to act. Another way of looking at it is worry is chaotic where thought/care is focused. One can care about something and worry about it... but the worry will make the thinking one does because they care less focused and effective.

Yeah OK, it's hard not to get convoluted when you're talking about this

ren wrote: The "thinking" definition seems rather limited tzb. There is imo far more thinking to do than problem solving. I guess when I use "worry" i mean, "think about something i care about being harmed in some way", whilst to me thinking could be "I wonder what the universe is made out of" sort of thing.

How about concern?

I'm sorry to do this, and it could break down to language differences, but generally, "worry" is seen as a fear of future results/actions... Concern/consideration is, to me, more what you are meaning......

Akkarin I guess i meant "worry" in a stronger, more general way, not specific to anypotential splits (i don't think there's a way to predict/prevent that to be honest). But at the same time, I think people tend to make rash decisions... I can certainly think of a few instances since I resigned from my offices here where I thought things hadn't been thought through properly...

Sure...

And looking back, we can too, andcee will.learn from those decisions ...

People do make rash decisions, and any decision made without all information will seem rash...

Seriously, I think your resignation was rash, and done in haste....

Looking back, when we have more information, we can say that of almost anything...

But, when you think you know all you can, or a decision is needed (or felt to be needed) NOW, then we make our decisions, and adjust as necessary...

I guess I am "worried" about the whole "think in the now" train of thought. There is no point in this. What happens now is necessarily the result of the past, and this can't be changed. Whilst spending your "now" time thinking about what will happen in the future means you base your near-future actions on what its future implications will be (based on lessons from the past). Sure that means you are waisting time that could be spent doing other things right now.... But I just don't see a point in doing this without a particular future goal to reach. The value of any action now is what it actually achieves later, and not the intention behind it.

You can't "think" anywhere BUT the now, its where you are...

We can consider the past, of course...

We can consider the possible future(s)...

But a decision can only be made in the NOW....

You will make a decision NOW to steer toward the (one of an infinite number of) future, by basing it on past events, and current knowledge...

Right?

Kohadre, I think that explained things rather well. Thank you. So if in fact if the teachings etc remain intact and implemented in towards the physical Temple (which I see no reason why not) it will thrive. For how long? I don't know. All things man made comes to an add. All things as a life, or for my fellow business majors, a product lifestyle. I am pretty much on the same page with Akkarin. If we constantly focus on the what ifs, nothing will get done. We have to do the best we can with what we have done, and what we can accomplish. Whatever our short comings are, that we are not able to tend to before our passing, the future generation will have to tend to it. That does not mean to not be mindful of possible problems, and to throw our future generation into chaos. It is a very delicate balance. If it is the will of the Force that the Jedi movement dies within a decade, two decades, hundred years, two hundred, a thousand. So be it.

Senan, I think you are thinking way to far ahead and looking at a tremendous amount of problems that could arise. You could very well add in there, a fire, burglary, earthquake, alien invasion, etc. Is being prepared a good thing? Of course it is. However, being prepared is only a bad thing is when it is over used and halts progress. However I will try to list solutions or my opinions to those possible problems.

Yes, possibly, there could be a leader that would take us astray. However i think if that happened, the council mbersnwould probably step in and and fill the void until a new leader is in place.

Homeless people? Don't know. I view this as one of those unfounded fears or worry. Would also depend upon what the main purpose of the Temple is, and what kind of facilities will be implemented upon its creations. Some people have listed schools, library, hospital, orphanage, etc. Pardon the term, it is rather old, and I am probably paraphrasing, but that is like putting the cart in front of the horse. It would I guess be decided before its built what the purpose, etc of the Temple will be, and if it will have any other uses implemented besides just for enlightenment / sermons. I guess maybe it would be the Council that would decide the use(s), with possibly the knights input? Maybe a combination of all groups, no idea.

Electric bill? Guess that would be another decision the council etc would have to make.

Gym vs Library. Again, depends upon if there will be multiple purposes for the location or not. I'd just be happy with a physical location for weekly sermons and fellowships. However if there is a need for these other purposes built inside the Temple, then by all means.

Less of a Jedi? No, I do not believe it would. The purpose of the Temple is for fellowship etc, and enlightenment. Obviously if this was built, the council would not expect all to pack up, and leave for the first Temple. We do what we can do. If a person feels they are more less of a Jedi for it, them that sounds like an inner problem with something else inside them. I'd foresee the use of this website, for a long time, even after the Temple is built. Maybe even after many are built. Again. A very slow progress. (Stating many Temples because at least my view of it would be, similar to how the Mormons have things set up for them. They have a grand Temple in a certain state. [Utah I believe] The temple there is for special purposes [forgive any ignorance, as I only know a little of the Mormon faith], and then they have other temples, a lot smaller inside scattered across cities, states, possibly countries, an. Those smaller ones are for fellowship and worship only.)

ren wrote: never thought of it this way, how do they differ?

Worry is meditation on the potentially non-existent negative.

I think I am misusing the word now lol...

I have to disagree with you here steamboat, I think worry, even in the sense others use it, may be excessive, but not ncessarily negative. the potentially non-existent is potentially existent, and the potentially negative is potentially positive. I'm sure the US south worried about northern policies regarding slavery, but it wasn't about non-existent possibilities, and a negative for some was a positive for others...

But I get the overall point about "worry".

People do make rash decisions, and any decision made without all information will seem rash...

Seriously, I think your resignation was rash, and done in haste....

Looking back, when we have more information, we can say that of almost anything...

I think it's unfair of us to be regretful of past decisions, because, well, they seemed right at the time, and surely, doing what seems right is better than doing something that seems wrong... You can be critical of what led you to believe something to be right though imo (such as your own thought processes, incorrect or inadequate info, etc).
My resignation had been on my mind for some time and the reasons that led me to it are still relevant today. Sure there was a tipping point, and the smear campaign certainly wasn't very nice... I still help out when I feel like it, you guys can deal with all the complaints and conspiracy theories, and people not doing stuff properly, and the people who upgrade the forum, etc :silly:

You can't "think" anywhere BUT the now, its where you are...

We can consider the past, of course...

We can consider the possible future(s)...

But a decision can only be made in the NOW....

You will make a decision NOW to steer toward the (one of an infinite number of) future, by basing it on past events, and current knowledge...

Right?

, HmmI would agree that obviously the thinking is happening as it happens, and if i also talk about it the same time, I will use the word "now"... But imo the mind shouldn't think about the things that are now, but about the things that will be, in order to figure out what should be done now, using lessons learned from the past.
To give a movie reference, I think qi-gon's "focus" lesson is particularly distasteful. Instead of dealing with things aimlessly as they came, thinking, seing the bigger picture would have revealed the darker forces at work...

ren wrote:

People do make rash decisions, and any decision made without all information will seem rash...

Seriously, I think your resignation was rash, and done in haste....

Looking back, when we have more information, we can say that of almost anything...

I think it's unfair of us to be regretful of past decisions, because, well, they seemed right at the time, and surely, doing what seems right is better than doing something that seems wrong... You can be critical of what led you to believe something to be right though imo (such as your own thought processes, incorrect or inadequate info, etc).
My resignation had been on my mind for some time and the reasons that led me to it are still relevant today. Sure there was a tipping point, and the smear campaign certainly wasn't very nice... I still help out when I feel like it, you guys can deal with all the complaints and conspiracy theories, and people not doing stuff properly, and the people who upgrade the forum, etc :silly:

It may have been a while in coming, but it hapens to us all, lol....

Anyway, I didnt say anything about regret, only (saying in previous conversations as well) that past is good for examination and to provide us with info, but decisions are now....

Is that why you resigned? Tired of fixing my screwups, :lol:....

You can't "think" anywhere BUT the now, its where you are...

We can consider the past, of course...

We can consider the possible future(s)...

But a decision can only be made in the NOW....

You will make a decision NOW to steer toward the (one of an infinite number of) future, by basing it on past events, and current knowledge...

Right?

, HmmI would agree that obviously the thinking is happening as it happens, and if i also talk about it the same time, I will use the word "now"... But imo the mind shouldn't think about the things that are now, but about the things that will be, in order to figure out what should be done now, using lessons learned from the past.
To give a movie reference, I think qi-gon's "focus" lesson is particularly distasteful. Instead of dealing with things aimlessly as they came, thinking, seing the bigger picture would have revealed the darker forces at work...

NOW has to be considered because things are different than they were then....

Not to mention the desired results may be different as well....

In the NOW is the only time that all of that matters....

Maybe we are circling around each other, lol.. :lol:...

Jestor wrote: Is that why you resigned? Tired of fixing my screwups, :lol:....[/color]

Well yes of course lol. I also took the time to create all those "Jestorisafaggot" accounts and would break the app at least once a day just to show you how i truly felt about it :silly:

LOL!!!!

I think we should all just take a step back and consider what a temple means to us... here's one possible rendition:

So there are just too many pages so I wanted to redirect a bit. What exactly would the TOTJO temple be teaching? What will be the requirements of said teachers?

MJ Hannigan wrote: So there are just too many pages so I wanted to redirect a bit. What exactly would the TOTJO temple be teaching? What will be the requirements of said teachers?

If I were to imagine such a thing, a physical temple, it perhaps would facilitate students doing the IP and Initiate workloads, before finally providing more useful facilities to support the resident Training Master's conducting Apprenticeship's, which are of course more personal and content would be different for each Apprentice... as it is now.

As I'd like to see such a thing provide the means to train in skills, whether they be meditation, philosophy, first aid or helicopter flying LOL. Proficiency is the foundation to grow, so you can never do enough training!!!

Whyte Horse wrote: I think we should all just take a step back and consider what a temple means to us... here's one possible rendition:

Ya baby!

Game, set, match, score: love-love!

Akkarin wrote: Besides the practical limitations of building a temple, the planning and organising etc, we don't actually need one. What would we use it for? Other than just having a Temple?

Sure we can use it to host Jedi gatherings, that might actually be a great way of using it, and we can use it to maybe hold training sessions etc or as a spiritual retreat for members of the public and other Jedi etc, hosting teaching seminars and so on. Those sorts of things are probably a great use of the land.

That being said we only have $400 in our bank account so we aren't even close to be able to afford this sort of thing. A fundraiser would also have to be justified and we would need a full plan in place for that.

The fastest way to encourage us to begin building a temple would either be a larger influx of donations or a donation of viable land itself. Not just 'land' either, you have to take into account such things as transport, sanitation, electricity, water, planning restrictions, the surrounding use for the land, future use of surrounding land, and not to mention variable weather conditions to make living there actually enjoyable etc.

One benefit to having an actual temple or even a monastery would be having a controlled environment where people could go and gain mastery over themselves and greater understanding of the principles they are supposed to embody without the constant distraction of the outside world. This is not to say they should be insular, but that mastery of the Ideology has to come before it can be effectively applied to the outside world. Another benefit is it would increase the legitimacy of the Religion in the eyes of the outside world. All of this would contribute to the survive ability of the Jediism. As far as organization the temple as described in the book The Jedi Path could be a template, and it could be administered in like fasion to the coop Mondragon all under a series of 503c`s

If I understand well, the first interest of such a temple, according to the conversation, would be to have teachers or poeple living in, to have seminaries or Jedi gatherings. But you seem to forget two really important functions of a temple or church.

The first one is the place to ressource yourself. A place of peace, to be able to meditate in a place of a higher quality, made for that. Personally, I would love to have a place made for that. A peacfull hall, with high ceiling, fresh, and comfortable, to meditate in peace. That is the first reason why I would build such a temple.

The second one, is a place for pelgrimage. According with Campbell's teachings, an inner journey must be executed to reach another level of beleif or understanding, or even life. And ancient tribes understood that, and put in place some initiation that would figurate that journey through a physical journey. A lot of myths speak about those sort of things. And a lot of people feel the need for that. I feel the need for that for an exemple. But no place is yet related with Jediism as a religion. A place for pilgrimage is not to under estimate.

Add to that all the arguments about the non Jedi community. Building such a place will affirm the reality of our religion, this is something real, not a role play online, but also the importance of our community, we are enough to be able to build such a building, our belief has spread, and for some poeple, make them aware of our existence. Show to some other lost poeple the existance of our path, that they could maybe found their way through our religion.

I really want to see such a place built. A place reflecting our community. A place to affirm our beliefs. A place to live our belief. I think we reached a point where we need to materialize our community, to finally feel recognized by our world.

To Everyone: Our registered legal physical address is in Beaumont Texas. That's about 88 miles from Houston. So I'll pick that as the the quasi-arbitrary location to have a building. Assume we have a massive temple in Beaumont Texas.

How many of you can leave your jobs and homes behind to come live here and be teachers?

How many of you can come for a one week stay within the next two years and would you?

There is no cost for lodging and meals since there are guest quarters here.

If temples where not considered a building everything could be a temple? :blink:

I guess youre posing a hypothetical for the sake of making a point, but If you could afford to house me and provide me the space and basic resources that i would need in order to build up a martial arts training program, i could probably be there in a few months. Six months at most. (EDIT: since you gave a two year window and i AM in school and i dont know for sure how difficult it would be for me to get there, i want to amend this time period to "probably in six months but definitely within the two year window) Eventually someone better at martial arts than me will show up and thats cool, but i can set up a program that would be able to continue to run on its own as long as there were people there who were dedicated (not just "interested" but dedicated)

It would be a lot easier on everybody if you already have some way prepared that i could work to generate the funds to cover my living expenses.

I am currently at the university, and coming within two years is impossible for me. But in two years I can come for a few weeks, or even a year. And if you count the building process, it would be in the two first year of the temple life.

Actually, I love the project of building a temple, but I live in Europe, and I would like to see one here too... But if there's only one in USA, you can be sure that I would come and visit within the 5 years (maximum).

How many of you can come for a one week stay within the next two years and would you?

There is no cost for lodging and meals since there are guest quarters here.

Are you inviting me over for Coffee br John?

I have never said no to free coffee.

Don't make me fly to Texas to maintain my perfect record.

John,

I could make a trip in July. Perhaps Brenna or Wescli will come with.

-Connor