Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

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30 Oct 2014 16:13 - 30 Oct 2014 16:16 #167434 by tzb
Replied by tzb on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

ren wrote: The "thinking" definition seems rather limited tzb. There is imo far more thinking to do than problem solving.


Yes agreed, really. The useful definition there was of worry... worry is always about something (in the way they characterise thinking as about a problem), but the distinction for me is that worry is useless, thinking is useful. Discretion and focus are key factors in avoiding worry and achieving meaningful thought, in this context of tackling problems.

ren wrote: I guess when I use "worry" i mean, "think about something i care about being harmed in some way", whilst to me thinking could be "I wonder what the universe is made out of" sort of thing.


Sounds like part of what I'd define as care. I think you can care about something and both worry or think about it... the former is useless, the latter useful.

Worry by many definitions (evidently not the one you subscribe to) is rather a worthless process of filling one's time with abstract thoughts, arbitrary scenarios the rehearsing of which adds little or nothing to one's readiness to tackle them. Worry only serves to muddy the waters, and is rooted in anxiety rather than readiness or the potential to act. Another way of looking at it is worry is chaotic where thought/care is focused. One can care about something and worry about it... but the worry will make the thinking one does because they care less focused and effective.

Yeah OK, it's hard not to get convoluted when you're talking about this :D
Last edit: 30 Oct 2014 16:16 by tzb.

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30 Oct 2014 16:30 #167438 by Jestor

ren wrote: The "thinking" definition seems rather limited tzb. There is imo far more thinking to do than problem solving. I guess when I use "worry" i mean, "think about something i care about being harmed in some way", whilst to me thinking could be "I wonder what the universe is made out of" sort of thing.


How about concern?

I'm sorry to do this, and it could break down to language differences, but generally, "worry" is seen as a fear of future results/actions... Concern/consideration is, to me, more what you are meaning...:unsure:...

Akkarin I guess i meant "worry" in a stronger, more general way, not specific to anypotential splits (i don't think there's a way to predict/prevent that to be honest). But at the same time, I think people tend to make rash decisions... I can certainly think of a few instances since I resigned from my offices here where I thought things hadn't been thought through properly...


Sure...

And looking back, we can too, andcee will.learn from those decisions ...

People do make rash decisions, and any decision made without all information will seem rash...

Seriously, I think your resignation was rash, and done in haste....

Looking back, when we have more information, we can say that of almost anything...

But, when you think you know all you can, or a decision is needed (or felt to be needed) NOW, then we make our decisions, and adjust as necessary...

I guess I am "worried" about the whole "think in the now" train of thought. There is no point in this. What happens now is necessarily the result of the past, and this can't be changed. Whilst spending your "now" time thinking about what will happen in the future means you base your near-future actions on what its future implications will be (based on lessons from the past). Sure that means you are waisting time that could be spent doing other things right now.... But I just don't see a point in doing this without a particular future goal to reach. The value of any action now is what it actually achieves later, and not the intention behind it.


You can't "think" anywhere BUT the now, its where you are...

We can consider the past, of course...

We can consider the possible future(s)...

But a decision can only be made in the NOW....

You will make a decision NOW to steer toward the (one of an infinite number of) future, by basing it on past events, and current knowledge...

Right?

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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  • Revan Falton
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30 Oct 2014 16:37 #167440 by Revan Falton
Replied by Revan Falton on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project
Kohadre, I think that explained things rather well. Thank you. So if in fact if the teachings etc remain intact and implemented in towards the physical Temple (which I see no reason why not) it will thrive. For how long? I don't know. All things man made comes to an add. All things as a life, or for my fellow business majors, a product lifestyle. I am pretty much on the same page with Akkarin. If we constantly focus on the what ifs, nothing will get done. We have to do the best we can with what we have done, and what we can accomplish. Whatever our short comings are, that we are not able to tend to before our passing, the future generation will have to tend to it. That does not mean to not be mindful of possible problems, and to throw our future generation into chaos. It is a very delicate balance. If it is the will of the Force that the Jedi movement dies within a decade, two decades, hundred years, two hundred, a thousand. So be it.

Senan, I think you are thinking way to far ahead and looking at a tremendous amount of problems that could arise. You could very well add in there, a fire, burglary, earthquake, alien invasion, etc. Is being prepared a good thing? Of course it is. However, being prepared is only a bad thing is when it is over used and halts progress. However I will try to list solutions or my opinions to those possible problems.

Yes, possibly, there could be a leader that would take us astray. However i think if that happened, the council mbersnwould probably step in and and fill the void until a new leader is in place.

Homeless people? Don't know. I view this as one of those unfounded fears or worry. Would also depend upon what the main purpose of the Temple is, and what kind of facilities will be implemented upon its creations. Some people have listed schools, library, hospital, orphanage, etc. Pardon the term, it is rather old, and I am probably paraphrasing, but that is like putting the cart in front of the horse. It would I guess be decided before its built what the purpose, etc of the Temple will be, and if it will have any other uses implemented besides just for enlightenment / sermons. I guess maybe it would be the Council that would decide the use(s), with possibly the knights input? Maybe a combination of all groups, no idea.

Electric bill? Guess that would be another decision the council etc would have to make.

Gym vs Library. Again, depends upon if there will be multiple purposes for the location or not. I'd just be happy with a physical location for weekly sermons and fellowships. However if there is a need for these other purposes built inside the Temple, then by all means.

Less of a Jedi? No, I do not believe it would. The purpose of the Temple is for fellowship etc, and enlightenment. Obviously if this was built, the council would not expect all to pack up, and leave for the first Temple. We do what we can do. If a person feels they are more less of a Jedi for it, them that sounds like an inner problem with something else inside them. I'd foresee the use of this website, for a long time, even after the Temple is built. Maybe even after many are built. Again. A very slow progress. (Stating many Temples because at least my view of it would be, similar to how the Mormons have things set up for them. They have a grand Temple in a certain state. [Utah I believe] The temple there is for special purposes [forgive any ignorance, as I only know a little of the Mormon faith], and then they have other temples, a lot smaller inside scattered across cities, states, possibly countries, an. Those smaller ones are for fellowship and worship only.)

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30 Oct 2014 16:57 #167446 by steamboat28

ren wrote: never thought of it this way, how do they differ?


Worry is meditation on the potentially non-existent negative.

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30 Oct 2014 18:09 #167455 by ren
I think I am misusing the word now lol...

I have to disagree with you here steamboat, I think worry, even in the sense others use it, may be excessive, but not ncessarily negative. the potentially non-existent is potentially existent, and the potentially negative is potentially positive. I'm sure the US south worried about northern policies regarding slavery, but it wasn't about non-existent possibilities, and a negative for some was a positive for others...

But I get the overall point about "worry".

People do make rash decisions, and any decision made without all information will seem rash...

Seriously, I think your resignation was rash, and done in haste....

Looking back, when we have more information, we can say that of almost anything...


I think it's unfair of us to be regretful of past decisions, because, well, they seemed right at the time, and surely, doing what seems right is better than doing something that seems wrong... You can be critical of what led you to believe something to be right though imo (such as your own thought processes, incorrect or inadequate info, etc).
My resignation had been on my mind for some time and the reasons that led me to it are still relevant today. Sure there was a tipping point, and the smear campaign certainly wasn't very nice... I still help out when I feel like it, you guys can deal with all the complaints and conspiracy theories, and people not doing stuff properly, and the people who upgrade the forum, etc :silly: :P

You can't "think" anywhere BUT the now, its where you are...

We can consider the past, of course...

We can consider the possible future(s)...

But a decision can only be made in the NOW....

You will make a decision NOW to steer toward the (one of an infinite number of) future, by basing it on past events, and current knowledge...

Right?

, HmmI would agree that obviously the thinking is happening as it happens, and if i also talk about it the same time, I will use the word "now"... But imo the mind shouldn't think about the things that are now, but about the things that will be, in order to figure out what should be done now, using lessons learned from the past.
To give a movie reference, I think qi-gon's "focus" lesson is particularly distasteful. Instead of dealing with things aimlessly as they came, thinking, seing the bigger picture would have revealed the darker forces at work...

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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30 Oct 2014 19:52 #167467 by Jestor

ren wrote:

People do make rash decisions, and any decision made without all information will seem rash...

Seriously, I think your resignation was rash, and done in haste....

Looking back, when we have more information, we can say that of almost anything...


I think it's unfair of us to be regretful of past decisions, because, well, they seemed right at the time, and surely, doing what seems right is better than doing something that seems wrong... You can be critical of what led you to believe something to be right though imo (such as your own thought processes, incorrect or inadequate info, etc).
My resignation had been on my mind for some time and the reasons that led me to it are still relevant today. Sure there was a tipping point, and the smear campaign certainly wasn't very nice... I still help out when I feel like it, you guys can deal with all the complaints and conspiracy theories, and people not doing stuff properly, and the people who upgrade the forum, etc :silly: :P


It may have been a while in coming, but it hapens to us all, lol....

Anyway, I didnt say anything about regret, only (saying in previous conversations as well) that past is good for examination and to provide us with info, but decisions are now....:)

Is that why you resigned? Tired of fixing my screwups, :lol:....

You can't "think" anywhere BUT the now, its where you are...

We can consider the past, of course...

We can consider the possible future(s)...

But a decision can only be made in the NOW....

You will make a decision NOW to steer toward the (one of an infinite number of) future, by basing it on past events, and current knowledge...

Right?

, HmmI would agree that obviously the thinking is happening as it happens, and if i also talk about it the same time, I will use the word "now"... But imo the mind shouldn't think about the things that are now, but about the things that will be, in order to figure out what should be done now, using lessons learned from the past.
To give a movie reference, I think qi-gon's "focus" lesson is particularly distasteful. Instead of dealing with things aimlessly as they came, thinking, seing the bigger picture would have revealed the darker forces at work...


NOW has to be considered because things are different than they were then....

Not to mention the desired results may be different as well....

In the NOW is the only time that all of that matters....

Maybe we are circling around each other, lol.. :lol:...

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
The following user(s) said Thank You: ren

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30 Oct 2014 22:56 #167526 by ren

Jestor wrote: Is that why you resigned? Tired of fixing my screwups, :lol:....[/color]


Well yes of course lol. I also took the time to create all those "Jestorisafaggot" accounts and would break the app at least once a day just to show you how i truly felt about it :P :silly:

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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31 Oct 2014 00:00 #167533 by Jestor
LOL!!!!

:)

:P

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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02 Nov 2014 08:56 #167869 by Whyte Horse
I think we should all just take a step back and consider what a temple means to us... here's one possible rendition:

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.

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  • MJ Hannigan
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07 Nov 2014 00:46 #168514 by MJ Hannigan
Replied by MJ Hannigan on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project
So there are just too many pages so I wanted to redirect a bit. What exactly would the TOTJO temple be teaching? What will be the requirements of said teachers?

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