Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

Zenchi wrote: I believe Alan was simply including the modernization of the Bushido as quite a few Individuals are beginning to integrate the principles and philosophy of the Samurai into their daily lives.

Cherry-picking bits that seem "cool" is not the same as adopting principles. When you disassemble a belief structure and only take the individual parts, you no longer have that belief system any more than a child picking the pecans off the top of the pie is eating pecan pie. This is not a modernization of bushido, it is the adoption of certain principles (that can be found in numerous non-bushido belief systems and codes of conduct) at the cost of bushido's wholeness. Which, incidentally, discards the all-important context in which the individual beliefs exist.

steamboat28 wrote:

Zenchi wrote: I believe Alan was simply including the modernization of the Bushido as quite a few Individuals are beginning to integrate the principles and philosophy of the Samurai into their daily lives.

Cherry-picking bits that seem "cool" is not the same as adopting principles. When you disassemble a belief structure and only take the individual parts, you no longer have that belief system any more than a child picking the pecans off the top of the pie is eating pecan pie. This is not a modernization of bushido, it is the adoption of certain principles (that can be found in numerous non-bushido belief systems and codes of conduct) at the cost of bushido's wholeness. Which, incidentally, discards the all-important context in which the individual beliefs exist.

It ultimately is a matter of taste and opinion. I personally view it as a form of evolution.

If adopting a set of beliefs and/or philosophies inspire people and they in turn are able to use it to make their lives better, more power to them.

Is it true Bushido? Of course not, anyone making such assumptions needs to spend more time studying it. I would hope any members who have spent a couple of months here would know better.

Jediism is an evolved amalgam of several different beliefs and philosophies, (as is Christianity) that doesn't make it any less meaningful for it's followers.

Things evolve, or they stagnate. Some may find that offensive in regards to paths like the Bushido, etc, but it is happening.

Some will fight it, some will attack it, others will see the value in adopting certain principles and beliefs that speak to them on some profound level and make it work for them...

666 wrote: well...
when I start working on cafepress and zazzle i found that "LucasFilm" or whatever is called, own the copyright of crazy things as the word "Jedi" and many others .

Maybe if someone really build a temple there is NO WAY to call it Temple of the Jedi Order
because copyright infringement, so ...

What is the point to have a temple, that can not carry our name?

in my opinion right now, we need to find first what are the LEGAL options to use our name.
or more crazy, try to find why " Jedi" is copyrighted, or worst, try to make "lucasFilm" release the rights of it.
Or even more crazy, go straight to George Lucas. ( maybe doesn't work, because now Disney own some of the rights)
Maybe we need to deal with Disney?

I know, there's money involved in this process too, but the only way to make something Legit/Legal, is to do it right.
and right now, looks impossible to use our name...
Maybe they allow this website just because we aren't big, and because we are just a few guys, and we don't make any money, and there is no presence in the real world.

Looks crazy, but ... it looks that we don't have the right to use even our temple name, outside here.
Maybe that is more important?
Maybe is more important to make this a recognized religion? ( some places/countries don't have a way to legalize a religion) and make release the "Jedi" word to be used freely.

What is the point to have a temple without our name?

I would like to interject on this point. You can't copyright a religion. Saying that the word Jedi is owned by any company is like saying that the Vatican own the rights to the word Christ. It doesn't work! Jediism, IS a recognised religion and therefore cannot be copyrighted or trade marked. (This is why you can set up a church anywhere and call yourself a Christian). If it were possible for you to legally own any part of the Christian religion, you could bet a pound to a penny that you would be paying royalties to the Vatican! That is a fact!

Its not copyrighting a religion...

Its trademarking a word....

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:4nh945.2.6

I've been informed that my link expired....

http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/index.jsp

Trademark search "Jedi"..

You can't trade mark it either. The owner of the Trade Mark didn't argue against a religion set in it's name. That religion is now legally recognised, therefore the Trade Mark can't operate. If the owner of the Trade Mark had disputed the religion in it's name then they would have president to dispute the word Jedi. Seeing as the former didn't happen the owner would be disqualified from attempting the later.

I'm no lawyer, lol...

I was informed as long as we are not "for profit" we were left alone...

Those sites, zazzle and cafe press are "for profit" sites...

For more info, I'll defer to Br. John, lol....

Jestor wrote: I'm no lawyer, lol...

I was informed as long as we are not "for profit" we were left alone...

Those sites, zazzle and cafe press are "for profit" sites...

For more info, I'll defer to Br. John, lol....

I see where the contradiction lies. The religion being NFP is allowed to generate income but not so much that it would be deemed a for profit enterprise.

From what I read of the Trademark, basically we can't sell anything with the name "Jedi" on it. If we were to have a physical temple, it could use the name "in theory".

The Owl wrote:

Jestor wrote: I'm no lawyer, lol...

I was informed as long as we are not "for profit" we were left alone...

Those sites, zazzle and cafe press are "for profit" sites...

For more info, I'll defer to Br. John, lol....

I see where the contradiction lies. The religion being NFP is allowed to generate income but not so much that it would be deemed a for profit enterprise.

Not quite, a non-profit organization is a corporation like many others, except that it has no shares and no shareholders. It isn't publicly traded, but it is held accountable to the public (anyone can request an accounting of TOTJO's financial holdings). Board members, directors, and officers of a non-profit cannot receive compensation, but managers, administrative staff, and such are allowed to receive decent salaries. Basically, a non-profit is headed by a board of volunteers.

Source: legal dictionary

Jamie Stick wrote:

The Owl wrote:

Jestor wrote: I'm no lawyer, lol...

I was informed as long as we are not "for profit" we were left alone...

Those sites, zazzle and cafe press are "for profit" sites...

For more info, I'll defer to Br. John, lol....

I see where the contradiction lies. The religion being NFP is allowed to generate income but not so much that it would be deemed a for profit enterprise.

Not quite, a non-profit organization is a corporation like many others, except that it has no shares and no shareholders. It isn't publicly traded, but it is held accountable to the public (anyone can request an accounting of TOTJO's financial holdings). Board members, directors, and officers of a non-profit cannot receive compensation, but managers, administrative staff, and such are allowed to receive decent salaries. Basically, a non-profit is headed by a board of volunteers.

Source: legal dictionary

However there is a thin line between a decent salary and what is deemed excessive. That is to say if any member receives more than is "justified" they would be there for reward and thus the whole thing deemed a for profit exercise. There was someone disputing a church officials salary in the paper not so long ago. As for the "justified" salary I have no idea how they work that out.

Lol....

Off topic, and we are all volunteer...

Forgiveness if this has been brought up, I did not get a chance to read through the pages, let me share with you my thoughts, if you will...

The Temple has a logo, which works for us, and in turn works in the same effect as any other copyrighted logo...

I find copyright infringement would be in affect is if we attempted to sell a product without the consent of the owner of the Star Wars franchise, which we explicitly state we are unaffiliated with...
Take the toy makers for example, they make Star Wars toys to sell, for profit, they either got the consent, or bought the use to put the name on the package... We are chump change, pennies, compared to the massive franchise universe of Star Wars, if we shown significant profit from using the word Jedi, I suppose I could see a legal issue... Still, we do not market the temple Jedi, as the Star Wars Jedi... Our logo, is not the Star Wars logo...

There's a band called Jedi Mind Trick so with that in mind and the fact that Jediism is a recognized religion there shouldn't be any legal issues with using the word. Besides, I would say that the word has crossed into public domain, a cultural concept, because it has become synonymous with someone extraordinarily skilled. Of course, a disclaimer stating the lack of affiliation with the Star Wars brand would probably be a good idea.

A Temple would be beautiful but I think it's hard to "just" plan and do, it's a thing that needs to grow organically by people meeting regularly, increasing in numbers and from that build the new for a dedicated site. Why a park or similar wouldn't fulfill the need in the same manner is, to me, a matter of privacy. When engaging in my spiritual beliefs I don't want curious onlookers around since my spirituality is deeply personal and something I don't feel like sharing with anyone but other like-minded*. And I certainly don't want it to be some kind of show for random passer-by's, that would be too intrusive and disruptive.
A Temple would grant the level of privacy I'd like.
But it will have to grow from need and not desire.

*This is not meant as elitist as it may sound, I just didn't know how express better.

Llama Su wrote: Forgiveness if this has been brought up, I did not get a chance to read through the pages, let me share with you my thoughts, if you will...

That's all anyone has to offer, lol... I picked your quote cause its closest, :lol:....

You [an individual] can have all the thoughts and opinions we want....

But, when it comes to the law, well, the word "Jedi" is trademarked, and in a legal battle, that's what counts...

Unless some here is a lawyer, and can argue the point in a court of law, it make no sense for us to claim anything...

"Acceptance" is key....

We can only deal with "what is", not what "ought to be" or "what we think it should be"...

There merely is, "what is"....

Thank you Calem, back to the thread title topic...

LOL!


I already know how this is going to work: I'm going to buy the land myself, build my temple as a monastic get-away for Jedi and then donate to the Temple when I die. See? Now none of you have to worry about it anymore!

Okay, someone needs to win the lottery and donate some of the winnings towards this project. :lol:

Goodness....17 pages....Im still reading.

Let me at least say....As one of the Organizers/Co-Organizors of Jedi Gatherings since the Year of 2004 I can Accurately say that Texas is a terrible place to put up any sort of building dedicated to Gathering/Meet Up/Training.

A large percentage of memberships who actually do participate and have proven dedicated to meeting offline resides in the Michigan/Illinois-Chicago/Indiana/Ohio/Kentucky regions.

Those semi active in offline events upon the west coast would be in California.

If something was ever built....it would be my suggestion to follow the Gathered Communities area of most population.

Honestly I would put it on the boarder of IL & MI right next to the Great Lakes tip. But thats just me from years of researching events and location for Offline Gatherings. *Shurgs*


At the long and the short of it. Unless the land is owned by one charitable person willing to loan it out for gathering/offline events. A physical location is not practical. Gatherings happen all over the United States and Never repeated in one location. This is because we try to reach out to everyone in the US and recognize that other Jedi cannot pay for the expenses of travel. This year it was in Michigan. Next year 2015 it is in Indiana and Colorado.

Kitsu Tails wrote: Goodness....17 pages....Im still reading.

Let me at least say....As one of the Organizers/Co-Organizors of Jedi Gatherings since the Year of 2004 I can Accurately say that Texas is a terrible place to put up any sort of building dedicated to Gathering/Meet Up/Training.

A large percentage of memberships who actually do participate and have proven dedicated to meeting offline resides in the Michigan/Illinois-Chicago/Indiana/Ohio/Kentucky regions.

Those semi active in offline events upon the west coast would be in California.

If something was ever built....it would be my suggestion to follow the Gathered Communities are of most population.

Honestly I would put it on the boarder of IL & MI right next to the Great Lakes tip. But thats just me from years of researching events and location for Offline Gatherings. *Shurgs*


At the long and the short of it. Unless the land is owned by one charitable person willing to loan it out for gathering/offline events. A physical location is not practical. Gatherings happen all over the United States and Never repeated in one location. This is because we try to reach out to everyone in the US and recognize that other Jedi cannot pay for the expenses of travel. This year it was in Michigan. Next year 2015 it is in Indiana and Colorado.

Yes, however that is with your current data. That is not including our data, and that is not including the likelyhood of growth of membership over the years

With growth comes new needs. One day, maybe not now, there will be a need, and a stronger desire for a physical location. From what I read is that one of the main reasons for Texas was land prices. I've lived up in that area before. Its extremely expensive. (Don't get me started on the cigarette prices). So logically, for the first Temple, you would want a location where there is a strong influx of members, but ALSO since it would be a time of growth, the financial aspect of things has also got to be thought of. I believe when ever the first physical Temple is created, it will get the word out even more and I do believe you will have more and more members flocking to the religion. With more members comes more donations. More donations yield other Temples, in other areas of the country. Which equal even more exposure, members, and donations. It eon't be done in a day, a year or several. It will require a lot of dedicated members of the clergy, council members, and parishioners, howeverbi do believe in the future it will be applicable, and will be done.

I wasn't disagreeing with any of that. Heck...I have plans and layout for and entire Retreat Center with everything a community would need to sustain itself offline

I was merely disagreeing with the location I would not put it in texas.