Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

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30 Oct 2014 03:11 #167366 by Kohadre

Revan Falton wrote: Kohadre, very wise words, and sound advice. My question those is this. If Totjo is as open and accepting as you say it is (and I agree whole heartedly), what would building a physical location would make the congregation splinter off? If the same doctrine etc is observed and put in place in the physical Temple as it is here, where would the need arise to leave, build a new Temple with different views? The reason for the off breaks of those religions were due to them not accepting others and putting such strict rules etc upon its congregation etc. Would like to hear your thoughts on that.


Thank you Revan

To answer your questions,

If the same doctrine, creed, etc that is observed here at the online TOTJO temple would be put in place at a physical temple, with that physical temple continuing the customs of acceptance and openess where diversity is concerned, there would undoubtly be a great length of time in which the essence of the TOTJO community would be preserved.

But eventually, be it a decade or a century, or perhaps even a millennia down the line, inevitable things will happen. There will be a leader or person of influence appointed to a position within the temple who would have the authority to affect certain change. Eventually, there will be a particular leader or person of influence who wants to change certain aspects of the temple based on their, or the congregations desires. Once things start to change, there will be the inevitable rifts within the congregation that lead to events described in my previous post. Or, there could be some kind of corruption within the temple itself, which could cause a similar event.

Even with an acceptance of diversity, there may be members of the congregation who want things to be "their way". They will have some kind of controlling element within their personality, that will not tolerate anything less than "their way" being followed. These particular individuals would eventually either effect their viewpoints as the new standard of the temple, or start a new temple of their own, promoting their particular version of Jediism.

There are many other examples I could give, but I hope the ones mentioned above answer your question.

Remember the doctrine; embody the code.
Live the creed; embrace the 16 teachings.
Honor your vows.

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30 Oct 2014 04:18 #167374 by Angelus Kalen
Replied by Angelus Kalen on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

It would seem that the Chicago area also holds the most Jedi. But, I'll keep my opinion that Texas would be fine too due to there being 5 members, only outnumbered by one in Illinois. However, taking Kit's suggestion, Chicago would also be fun!


As a resident of Chicago, I would gladly welcome the building of a physical location. In fact with my offline group of 15 regularly active members,(Chicago Jedi), we are in the process of becoming a non-profit. That will be one step on our way to something physical.

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30 Oct 2014 12:01 #167391 by Akkarin
Replied by Akkarin on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project
If what makes sense for right now is the construction of a physical building and the expansion of our membership then that is what we ought to do. Worrying about a future that is not here yet, and may indeed never come to pass, won't do us any good right now.

Let's assume that we do create something great and that in time it does indeed start breaking down (through separation or corruption etc), well that is for Jedi of that time to contend with, it won't change any of the Good we are able to do now will it?

If at some other now what is needed is for our Temple to separate itself then that's what our Temple will do, it isn't like such things haven't already happened in the wider Jedi community, including at our Temple. If we wish to invest in the future to try and prevent the worst parts of any "split" then there are steps we can do also, by creating writings and book and such (which will doubtless be done in due course) to address the points that might be brought up.

If every organisation got hung up on what "might" happen in its future with regards to abandoning the original virtues, then every organisation ought to just stop all its functioning right now.

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30 Oct 2014 14:48 #167414 by ren

Worrying about a future that is not here yet, and may indeed never come to pass, won't do us any good right now.


Sorry for the offtopic, but someone's going to have to explain to me how not worrying about the future is a good thing (or worrying is NOT a good thing). Sure it sounds cool, but in real life, I am under the impression that the people who don't think about the future are the criminals, the polluters, the warmongers, the politicians, etc....

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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30 Oct 2014 14:52 #167415 by tzb
Replied by tzb on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project
Thinking and worrying are rather different.

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30 Oct 2014 14:57 #167418 by ren
never thought of it this way, how do they differ?

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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30 Oct 2014 15:03 #167420 by tzb
Replied by tzb on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project
I was googling to find a snappy definition, I came across this weird blog but I basically agree with how they put it here, however tortured the phrasing:

Thinking going by its definition has mainly two objectives. 1. To generate ideas or find solutions to existing problems, and 2. to formulate the generated ideas or solutions into plans or strategies that can be implemented. Combining these two objectives, the essence of thinking is to birth new ideas or find solutions to existing problems and converting the ideas generated or solutions found into workable plans. This is the sole essence of thinking; anything short of these two is worrying. If after thinking you are unable to draw up a plan of action based on the ideas or solutions you generated, then you've just finished worrying and have not been thinking.

THINKING vs WORRYING

"Worry is like rocking a chair it gives you something to do but won't take you anywhere." Unknown

Worrying is "thinking" aimlessly; not having a definite purpose or objective in mind. It's focusing on a problem and all its negative attributes rather than focusing on possible solutions.

reflectionsinverse.blogspot.co.uk/2011/0...worrying-how-to.html

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30 Oct 2014 15:16 #167424 by Akkarin
Replied by Akkarin on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

ren wrote:

Worrying about a future that is not here yet, and may indeed never come to pass, won't do us any good right now.


Sorry for the offtopic, but someone's going to have to explain to me how not worrying about the future is a good thing (or worrying is NOT a good thing). Sure it sounds cool, but in real life, I am under the impression that the people who don't think about the future are the criminals, the polluters, the warmongers, the politicians, etc....


I was very careful to state:

If we wish to invest in the future to try and prevent the worst parts of any "split" then there are steps we can do also, by creating writings and book and such (which will doubtless be done in due course) to address the points that might be brought up.


Because as you rightly point out one cannot ignore the direction that one goes in, so steps can be taken to minimise future damages, but that shouldn't be done at the expense of the Now.

Basic Teaching 3 wrote: 3. Jedi are aware of the future impacts of action and inaction and of the influence of the past, but live in and focus on the Now. We let ourselves flow like water through the events around us. We embrace the ever changing and fluid world, adapting and changing as it does.

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30 Oct 2014 15:39 #167427 by ren
The "thinking" definition seems rather limited tzb. There is imo far more thinking to do than problem solving. I guess when I use "worry" i mean, "think about something i care about being harmed in some way", whilst to me thinking could be "I wonder what the universe is made out of" sort of thing.

Akkarin I guess i meant "worry" in a stronger, more general way, not specific to anypotential splits (i don't think there's a way to predict/prevent that to be honest). But at the same time, I think people tend to make rash decisions... I can certainly think of a few instances since I resigned from my offices here where I thought things hadn't been thought through properly...

I guess I am "worried" about the whole "think in the now" train of thought. There is no point in this. What happens now is necessarily the result of the past, and this can't be changed. Whilst spending your "now" time thinking about what will happen in the future means you base your near-future actions on what its future implications will be (based on lessons from the past). Sure that means you are waisting time that could be spent doing other things right now.... But I just don't see a point in doing this without a particular future goal to reach. The value of any action now is what it actually achieves later, and not the intention behind it.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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30 Oct 2014 15:43 #167428 by Senan
Replied by Senan on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

Revan Falton wrote: If the same doctrine etc is observed and put in place in the physical Temple as it is here, where would the need arise to leave, build a new Temple with different views?


This may be misrepresenting Kohadre horribly, and if so I apologize, but I think I can sum up the point being made with a simple question. Once this physical Temple is built, who gets a key to the door?

Inevitably, someone or some specific people will have more control or influence over the building itself. While it does not have to result in corruption, it very easily could. As a member, am I allowed to sleep there if I am homeless? Who decides this? Who is responsible for the electric bill? If I am, do I get to decide if we run the air conditioning or not? If I want to use a room as a gym and another wants to use it as a library, who decides which use is more "Jedi"? If I choose to continue to visit this online Temple exclusively, does that make me less "Jedi" than the those who actually visit the physical Temple? Will those Jedi think less of me for not going there?

The advantage of this virtual space online is that major changes or minor adjustments are both more feasible and less permanent. People can come and go as they please without a gatekeeper locking the doors. Having internet access is all that is required to be here, and it puts every Jedi here on more equal footing. There are certainly those here who are responsible for establishing, maintaining, and paying for this site who might have some greater measure of control or privilege, but to this point they have proven themselves to be worthy of my trust and they have my full confidence that they have the best interest of TOTJO in mind.

I am not opposed to a physical Temple, but I personally believe we already share a planet as a place of worship and gathering, and far too many of us take our natural environment as it is for granted.

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