Well done, feminism. Now men are afraid to help women at work

ren wrote:

What I was pointing out is that feminism has brought out discussion about the way in which patriarchy has made it such that men are assumed to be incapable of being raped.

What I was pointing out is that feminism doesn't help men. I talk about male victims of rape and already it's the patriarchy's fault. That is what victim blaming is. If it's not current men, it was their fathers and their grandfathers' fault. It never is women's. It's not the female rapist's fault (she's a victim), it's not rape because to be a rapist you need a penis and she doesn't have one, it's not institutionalised bias brought forth by a majority (women) against a minority (men). it's the patriarchy. Because even if men are complaining that *something* isn't in their interest, surely that *something* must be in their interest, because they're men and it's the patriarchy. Unless those men are complaining about feminism. Feminism is there for men, unlike the patriarchy, especially to those who don't know what they're supposed to complain about or who they should complain to.

Every time a feminist thread comes up, Ren always swoops in to save the day.

I salute you, dude.

ren wrote: What I was pointing out is that feminism doesn't help men. I talk about male victims of rape and already it's the patriarchy's fault. That is what victim blaming is.

Nope. Blaming patriarchy isn't blaming the individual man who was raped for being raped nor is it even blaming men in general, but rather societal bias. Yes, that societal bias is patriarchal, but that's not the same logically or linguistically as blaming the victim.

I haven't saved the day yet StarForge.

Nope. Blaming patriarchy isn't blaming the individual man who was raped for being raped nor is it even blaming men in general, but rather societal bias. Yes, that societal bias is patriarchal, but that's not the same logically or linguistically as blaming the victim.

Please explain how that societal bias is patriarchal instead of assuming that it is. Because "patriarchy" isn't what comes to my mind when I see that rapists almost exclusively come out of "strong independent women".

ren wrote:
Please explain how that societal bias is patriarchal instead of assuming that it is. Because "patriarchy" isn't what comes to my mind when I see that rapists almost exclusively come out of "strong independent women".

The societal bias is that men are sex-driven, hot-blooded creatures who couldn't possibly be raped because they 1) wanted it 2) made it up or 3) are weak beta males who couldn't defend themselves. These are patriarchal narratives that, in other contexts, benefit men and were the original point of such narratives.

[ Citation Needed ] on that second half of your statement.

i dont want to be or seem rude or hostile

i have to say that there is a huge disconnect between the lives and thoughts of real actual living men and the STEREOTYPES of what and how men think and act that are being presented in this thread

Jamie Stick wrote:

ren wrote:
Please explain how that societal bias is patriarchal instead of assuming that it is. Because "patriarchy" isn't what comes to my mind when I see that rapists almost exclusively come out of "strong independent women".

The societal bias is that men are sex-driven, hot-blooded creatures who couldn't possibly be raped because they 1) wanted it 2) made it up or 3) are weak beta males who couldn't defend themselves. These are patriarchal narratives that, in other contexts, benefit men and were the original point of such narratives.

[ Citation Needed ] on that second half of your statement.

I have never heard any man make such points. I've heard feminists say it though. What do you think a woman tells her husband after he wakes up next to a woman he doesn't know? "oh I'm sorry you got raped"? or "get out (of your house) my lawyer will call your lawyer"?

Here you go http://www.photius.com/feminocracy/facts_on_fatherless_kids.html

I love the irony of topics like this dividing people. Especially a people dedicated to an inclusive perspective.

rugadd wrote: I love the irony of topics like this dividing people. Especially a people dedicated to an inclusive perspective.

Well if we're divided, it's all your fault.

Jamie Stick wrote:

ren wrote: What I was pointing out is that feminism doesn't help men. I talk about male victims of rape and already it's the patriarchy's fault. That is what victim blaming is.

Nope. Blaming patriarchy isn't blaming the individual man who was raped for being raped nor is it even blaming men in general, but rather societal bias. Yes, that societal bias is patriarchal, but that's not the same logically or linguistically as blaming the victim.

Ah, but it is relying on an unfair generalization which leads many of those associated with feminism to take on extremist points of view. The "patriarchal" term does not really apply to modern Western civilization, and it seems that the want to stand against it -- albeit something which I don't think truly exists -- allows these extremists to take hateful and dangerous paths in life.
It far too often creates the image of men as being destructive and terrible beings. No longer is it an issue of injustice, but an issue of injustice with the image of a man plastered onto it. Those kinds of generalizations may not strictly be blaming the victim for something, but it does create attitudes of just punishment, mockery, and indirect blame. Yes, the feminists will say that the man who is raped is a victim -- and at the same time blame him for upholding a "patriarchy" which doesn't exist except in the minds of those who seek to live in a victim culture, putting the responsibility on his shoulders albeit indirectly for what has happened to him, and to many others. You can't tell me that kind of culture doesn't exist in modern feminism; one doesn't have to look any further than social media to see that it exists.

It is only the legal domain of equality and equal rights which is real feminism, as its its purpose/intent/action. Anything else is just people talking around it, or about each other. Categorizing feminism as the body of opinions of feminists is a particularly useless definition IMO. If in doubt, ask your HR officer in writing using generalizations to develop a better understanding of the landscape to assert appropriate behaviour from yourself and others, as workplace laws probably are intended to protect peoples rights to work in a safe environment.