Well done, feminism. Now men are afraid to help women at work

Advocacy for women's rights on the grounds of equality to men is different from advocacy for gender equality how, sorry? Jedi believe in equal rights. As such they would advocate for women were they not to receive equal treatment. Ergo Jedi are inherently feminist.

Yes, sometimes a cigar is a cigar. And sometimes whiny butthurt men really are just whiny butthurt men.

Whyte Horse wrote:

tzb wrote: Hate to break it to some of you, but to be Jedi is to be inherently Feminist - that is, to believe in and advocate gender equality.

Dude, that's not the definition of feminist. That's the definition of gender egalitarianism.

Feminist: noun - a person who supports feminism.

Feminism: noun - the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

Being an a-hole to everyone is not a right. Lying is not a right. I think men don't help lying a-holes because they're lying a-holes. Sometimes a cigar is really just a cigar.

Feminism has evolved beyond that definition. Even if it hadn't, what would be wrong with that? The other thing to note, whether you choose to understand it or not, is that if you are in favor of gender equality, but oppose feminism, you are not in favor of gender equality.

Also, there is a difference between an idea and the person who espouses it. Many people are jerks. Some jerks are women. Some of those jerky women might espouse feminist ideas, but they do not speak for all feminists, all women, or all jerks.

Also, men tend to take this stuff awfully personally. More than this is about YOU, it is about a culture, a language, and a set of cultural assumptions that are bigger than you. But we (men) occupy those cultural assumptions and, in inexpressibly obvious ways, benefit from women's losses. Except that, in the long run, it isn't good for men either. Patriarchy is bad for everyone. Matriarchy wouldn't be any better.

Luckily, and I know this might come as a shock, no one is seriously suggesting that.

Hate to break it to some of you, but to be Jedi is to be inherently Feminist

Actually what the doctrine says is that jedi are opposed to gender discrimination, so by definition a jedi can't possibly be a feminist, since the very name of this ideology in inherently sexist. (it's literally named after one sex).

Patriarchy is bad for everyone

No, patriarchy is good for men. That's what patriarchy means. If something is not good for men, it is not patriarchal.

ren wrote:

Hate to break it to some of you, but to be Jedi is to be inherently Feminist

Actually what the doctrine says is that jedi are opposed to gender discrimination, so by definition a jedi can't possibly be a feminist, since the very name of this ideology in inherently sexist. (it's literally named after one sex).

Please go read a book on feminism by a feminist before spewing this ignorance.

ren wrote:

Patriarchy is bad for everyone

No, patriarchy is good for men. That's what patriarchy means. If something is not good for men, it is not patriarchal.

"Good for men" in a very limited sense. I'm pretty sure a lot of men are tired of being perceived as brainless brutes, yet that was stereotype created by patriarchal narratives inadvertently when they tried to reinforce the (false) idea that men must be strong at all times. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure being emotionally stunted isn't something objectively "good" for men, yet many men still suffer from stunted emotional lives because of patriarchal narratives that emotions are effeminate and therefore weak.

Akkarin wrote: This was interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/11904203/Well-done-feminism.-Now-man-are-afraid-to-help-women-at-work.html


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i think this is great news

im ready to date again and this is less competition

thanks

tzb wrote: Advocacy for women's rights on the grounds of equality to men is different from advocacy for gender equality how, sorry? Jedi believe in equal rights. As such they would advocate for women were they not to receive equal treatment. Ergo Jedi are inherently feminist.

Yes, sometimes a cigar is a cigar. And sometimes whiny butthurt men really are just whiny butthurt men.

So what do you mean by butthurt men? Is that meant to imply that I was anally raped and it hurt me and that means I am a whiner? wtf dude?

Jamie Stick wrote:

ren wrote:

Hate to break it to some of you, but to be Jedi is to be inherently Feminist

Actually what the doctrine says is that jedi are opposed to gender discrimination, so by definition a jedi can't possibly be a feminist, since the very name of this ideology in inherently sexist. (it's literally named after one sex).

Please go read a book on feminism by a feminist before spewing this ignorance.

Dude, what's your problem? You seem to have this bizarre, abstract, academic perception of women and feminism. Maybe you need to go read a book. I know women who "wrote the book" on feminism. They're my mother, grandmother, sisters, wife, and friends. I've asked them what feminism is about and they talk about things like being beaten by abusive men, left to raise kids without support, stuff like that. I show them examples of modern feminists and they throw up in the back of their throats and go wow, what a bitch. So yeah it's like that.

I guess I'm a feminist because gender equality does not yet exist in areas it should. There will always been examples of discriminatory outcomes (going both ways), even when gender equality is achieved within the system - but feminism is about gearing society out of patriarchy into equality, and its still got a long way to go in all parts of the world; hence feminism. If we ever reach a matriarchy then I guess I'd be a mens rights person then, but until then its only realistic domain is completely different to the one feminism needs to continue to operate within.

empowering women and punishing men are two different things

there is some obvious bigotry in the thread - if you want your cause to be respected then it has got to be respectable

if youre coming from a place of bitterness and venom then basically one cares what you think - youre full of venom and your judgement is clouded - and also its most likely that you really dont give a damn about inequality - only that youre on the wrong end of it

"innocent always people die when we bomb our enemies - im sorry they have to die, some of them are probably nice, but this is bigger than they are - and if you think about it its actually pretty selfish of them to say that we should put their tiny and insignificant lives ahead of our issue"

right?

generally speaking, i believe in empowering everyone through equal access to information and opportunity
what any particular individual or group does with said access is up to them

Whyte Horse wrote: Dude, what's your problem? You seem to have this bizarre, abstract, academic perception of women and feminism. Maybe you need to go read a book. I know women who "wrote the book" on feminism. They're my mother, grandmother, sisters, wife, and friends. I've asked them what feminism is about and they talk about things like being beaten by abusive men, left to raise kids without support, stuff like that. I show them examples of modern feminists and they throw up in the back of their throats and go wow, what a bitch. So yeah it's like that.

My problem is that you can call women bitches and I have yet to see anyone get up in arms about it, but if I even say the word feminism you act like I've said the most vile word ever and people rush to your defense.

Talking to women doesn't constitute feminism, sorry try again.