Cultural Appropriation

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9 years 1 month ago #185220 by
Replied by on topic Cultural Appropriation
Now that we've properly abandoned all pretense of anything more than self-congratulatory posting, thanks-begging, and intellectual masturbation; I shall post a quote from a link I shared earlier . I don't expect anyone to actually read it before simply hurling more accusations or another "I stopped reading your posts on page 2 but I'm still pretending like I bothered to read your post"-post.

Daily effects of white privilege

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.


You can read the rest of the essay here ( link ).

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9 years 1 month ago #185221 by rugadd
Replied by rugadd on topic Cultural Appropriation
I have read, appreciate, and agree with your posts on white privilege.


But isn't this thread about Cultural Appropriation?

Can we have an admin or someone start up a White Privilege thread starting with Jamie's post? It is definitely something to be discussed...I learned a lot when Jamie first posted on it...but is not the focus of this thread and stands to derail it even more...

rugadd
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9 years 1 month ago #185225 by rugadd
Replied by rugadd on topic Cultural Appropriation
And I honestly don't know if I should feel dirty or not. A lot of cultures influence my interests. Am I not allowed to draw manga(which I do) or buy anime paraphernalia? Have my studies in my martial art been one huge punch in the eye to Chinese culture? Is it "American culture" to appropriate cultures? Would I ten be wrong for doing it?

This subject confuses the hell out of me...it seems so, morally ambiguous...like, it's not a cultural appropriation unless someone gets pissed about it...and if it is all the time, whether people are pissed about or not, how do we measure up with our Jediism? It appropriates the hell out of ALOT of things...

I wonder if cosplayers get pissed at US...

rugadd
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9 years 1 month ago #185226 by Brenna
Replied by Brenna on topic Cultural Appropriation

rugadd wrote: And I honestly don't know if I should feel dirty or not. A lot of cultures influence my interests. Am I not allowed to draw manga(which I do) or buy anime paraphernalia? Have my studies in my martial art been one huge punch in the eye to Chinese culture? Is it "American culture" to appropriate cultures? Would I ten be wrong for doing it?

This subject confuses the hell out of me...it seems so, morally ambiguous...like, it's not a cultural appropriation unless someone gets pissed about it...and if it is all the time, whether people are pissed about or not, how do we measure up with our Jediism? It appropriates the hell out of ALOT of things...

I wonder if cosplayers get pissed at US...


Well, its hard not to feel dirty, when someone has decided they don't like your view point and punishes you for it under the guise of being culturally sensitive.



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
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9 years 1 month ago - 9 years 1 month ago #185228 by
Replied by on topic Cultural Appropriation

Jamie Stick wrote: Now that we've properly abandoned all pretense of anything more than self-congratulatory posting, thanks-begging, and intellectual masturbation; I shall post a quote from a link I shared earlier . I don't expect anyone to actually read it before simply hurling more accusations or another "I stopped reading your posts on page 2 but I'm still pretending like I bothered to read your post"-post.

Daily effects of white privilege

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.


You can read the rest of the essay here ( link ).


I'm not pretending to read it. What is the point of posting it other than to antagonize, after point 23 or so, almost all of which begin with the letter I?
Last edit: 9 years 1 month ago by .

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9 years 1 month ago - 9 years 1 month ago #185229 by Brenna
Replied by Brenna on topic Cultural Appropriation

Jamie Stick wrote: Now that we've properly abandoned all pretense of anything more than self-congratulatory posting, thanks-begging, and intellectual masturbation; I shall post a quote from a link I shared earlier . I don't expect anyone to actually read it before simply hurling more accusations or another "I stopped reading your posts on page 2 but I'm still pretending like I bothered to read your post"-post.



And I wonder at the dismissing of the cultural experiences and realities of other posters in the thread as "self-congratulatory posting, thanks-begging, and intellectual masturbation" simply because of the colour of their skin.



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
Last edit: 9 years 1 month ago by Brenna.
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9 years 1 month ago - 9 years 1 month ago #185230 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Cultural Appropriation
The vast majority of this thread has been people either arguing that they aren't responsible for other white peoples' actions, or misunderstanding the concept of cultural appropriation through hyperbolic assessments that I suggest they shouldn't do things they enjoy. Both greatly miss the point of this thread.

Nobody is saying you can't do X random cultural thing, or demanding you prevent someone from doing it. There is a difference in cultural appreciation and cultural appropriation, and that difference hinges on exploitation, lack of knowledge and respect, and lack of owning up to cultural influences outside your own.

If you think I'm ragging your friend because their drawing style mimics popular mangaka, you haven't been listening to me. (If I were to rag on your friend, it would be because they're a weeaboo, not an appropriator. :P )

If you think that a warbonnet or other ceremonial headdress is "just a hat", then you're perfectly illustrating cultural appropriation and its ignorance of the importance of culture to those who belong to it.

Questions before we derail further?
Last edit: 9 years 1 month ago by steamboat28.
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9 years 1 month ago #185232 by RyuJin
Replied by RyuJin on topic Cultural Appropriation
the vast majority of that list runs contradictory to my life experiences...

Warning: Spoiler!

Quotes:
Warning: Spoiler!

J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
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9 years 1 month ago - 9 years 1 month ago #185234 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Cultural Appropriation

steamboat28 wrote:

RyuJin wrote: i can't wait for the day when there is only 1 culture....the world culture...

i don't understand why people are so eager to keep themselves separate...if we were meant to be separate we wouldn't be able to reproduce inter-racially.....

i'm a human, my culture is human...i know my family history, it's fascinating to know it...but it doesn't define who i am...only where i came from

I just want to point out that I have literally never, in the entire history of my life, heard or read of anyone non-white holding this opinion. Ever.


Really!? It's would seem to fit into Buddhism pretty universally. I don't have a lot of time at the moment to check, but I tended to view Buddhism as a shift out of Vedic thought which used caste's quite a bit, to instead have some universal concept of intellectual capacity to differentiate practitioners on preferred pathways to enlightenment. As if it (Vedic path) had matured beyond race, and cultural social classes, to see people as people in what became Buddhism. Though Buddhism couldn't quite remove gender/sex from its practises though that is more a local variable IMO then a systematic element.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 9 years 1 month ago by Adder.
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9 years 1 month ago #185235 by Brenna
Replied by Brenna on topic Cultural Appropriation

steamboat28 wrote: the importance of culture to those who belong to it.



This.



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
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