A Problem.

Oneiros wrote: This thread is correct. There is a problem. But the problem isn't people calling other people out for being un-Jedi, or trying to force their own perception of Jedi on others. It's people thinking that just because they call themselves Jedi it makes it so.

Have I told you lately that I love you?

(great, I didn't even mean to, and now that song is stuck in my head! lol)

Oneiros wrote: This thread is correct. There is a problem. But the problem isn't people calling other people out for being un-Jedi, or trying to force their own perception of Jedi on others. It's people thinking that just because they call themselves Jedi it makes it so.

Actually, Oneiros, the problem is both. The issue you're not confronting is that there is no single authority (outside Disney) that can determine what "Jedi" means in a global setting. Even if a meeting was held spanning all currently extant religious Jedi organizations, no concensus could be guaranteed.

The solution to these two problems, then, is realizing that since the term Jedi, as a religious affiliation, has not been (and may not be capable of being) strictly defined in a universally applicable fashion, anyone who tells you that you are not Jedi is inherently wrong, because there is no measuring stick by which to compare them, and therefore they are asserting an unprovable "truth" with no evidence to support their selfish and dubious claim.

steamboat28 wrote:

Oneiros wrote: This thread is correct. There is a problem. But the problem isn't people calling other people out for being un-Jedi, or trying to force their own perception of Jedi on others. It's people thinking that just because they call themselves Jedi it makes it so.

Actually, Oneiros, the problem is both. The issue you're not confronting is that there is no single authority (outside Disney) that can determine what "Jedi" means in a global setting. Even if a meeting was held spanning all currently extant religious Jedi organizations, no concensus could be guaranteed.

The solution to these two problems, then, is realizing that since the term Jedi, as a religious affiliation, has not been (and may not be capable of being) strictly defined in a universally applicable fashion, anyone who tells you that you are not Jedi is inherently wrong, because there is no measuring stick by which to compare them, and therefore they are asserting an unprovable "truth" with no evidence to support their selfish and dubious claim.

That's fair. But I wouldn't call realizing that they are asserting an unprovable truth a solution. We don't have a real measuring stick. But we need one. That's the solution.

Oneiros wrote: We don't have a real measuring stick. But we need one.

Do we?

The problem with using things like measuring sticks and selected standards for identifying Jedi revolves around the requirement for truth - meaning anything that is consistently fact. Any concept created and molded by thought (particularly selective thought), through the ego, is something outside of what is ultimately true - why? Because concepts in question are only seen true from certain perspectives but not true from others, and thus, is not ultimately true. The designation "Jedi" by itself is an intangible artifact of thought, therefore, it is something that we apply through ego on top of what is actually true (what we are before any labels applied to ourselves and others). What we are underneath the labels and ideas created by our thoughts is the only thing that is consistently true (ultimately true), and that is not and never will be dictated by measuring sticks or standards. It is much too vast to be contained in any box as such.

When I say "I am a Jedi" or "You are a Jedi" it ultimately means nothing. Because it is made up. It is not reality, but it CAN be a tool used to help us see reality. I do not see that we are here to learn that "I am a Jedi and am to follow the Doctrine", so much as to learn how to shed the illusions of the ego through the guidance of what we learn here, because it is THAT which will enable us to exhibit the intended virtuous characteristics of the concept we call "Jedi" in each of our own ways. This includes becoming free from investing so seriously in ego-based concepts including "Jedi".

In order for me to be a Jedi, I have to let go of the concept of Jedi as an actual thing to be. Instead, I am to be my true self - what I am before labels and judgments are applied. That true self is where I find what the actual Jedi is. There is no external, dictated standard that ever can or ever will point to that. Anything NOT Jedi (by virtuous intention), is anything other than that ultimate state of truth, and therefore, any behavior manifested as result.

Oneiros wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:

Oneiros wrote: This thread is correct. There is a problem. But the problem isn't people calling other people out for being un-Jedi, or trying to force their own perception of Jedi on others. It's people thinking that just because they call themselves Jedi it makes it so.

Actually, Oneiros, the problem is both. The issue you're not confronting is that there is no single authority (outside Disney) that can determine what "Jedi" means in a global setting. Even if a meeting was held spanning all currently extant religious Jedi organizations, no concensus could be guaranteed.

The solution to these two problems, then, is realizing that since the term Jedi, as a religious affiliation, has not been (and may not be capable of being) strictly defined in a universally applicable fashion, anyone who tells you that you are not Jedi is inherently wrong, because there is no measuring stick by which to compare them, and therefore they are asserting an unprovable "truth" with no evidence to support their selfish and dubious claim.

That's fair. But I wouldn't call realizing that they are asserting an unprovable truth a solution. We don't have a real measuring stick. But we need one. That's the solution.

We at TOTJO, let anyone call themselves a Jedi...

Well, in our case, it currently requires an oath and an application...

But, how many people unaffiliated with a Jedi site call themselves a Jedi? Plenty...

How many call themselves Jedi Knights? Fewer... Or Masters? Fewer still...

Many of our brother and sister sites wont let you call yourself a "Jedi" until you have earned it... In my opinion, this doesnt matter, because the masses call themselves Jedi, and they do so unchecked... The "higher" rank you become, the more likely someone will call you out... Test your "jedi-ness", lol...

So, the word Jedi is diluted by those who just want the name... Jedi Organization, or not...

So, (and there is nothing wrote down, just how I personally see all of this) we at TOTJO have taken that idea, let it ride, because honestly, if you think it is hard to change the minds of those few who call themselves Jedi, try changing a culture mindset, lol...

SO, we have let Jedi mean that ANYONE can be a Jedi, and at a basic level, mean they believe in a 'force' and that's about it... That's what the populace, who are not members of an organization, do...

So, we at TOTJO have let the term "Jedi" mean a beginner on this path, because they have not (necessarily) begun the steps to make themselves a better Person/Jedi...

We then use our ranks and statuses, (here at TOTJO) to show that the individual who has a rank here, has begun to apply themselves in that manner (self improvement, I mean)....

Hopefully, the higher the rank, the higher the awareness...

But, a quote of mine I have not used in a while, and applies to every situation where rank, documentation, or status gets elevated...

"Not all doctors got 'As'...."

Many of our brother and sister sites wont let you call yourself a "Jedi" until you have earned it...

Mmm...perhaps I am out of the loop....but I do not recall any of the sites I've been at that require such. They do if you wish to hold Rank....but never have they stopped a individual from calling themselves Jedi. From my own observations as limited as they may be.

So, apparently, I say "so" a lot!!!

:lol:...

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Many of our brother and sister sites wont let you call yourself a "Jedi" until you have earned it...

Mmm...perhaps I am out of the loop....but I do not recall any of the sites I've been at that require such. They do if you wish to hold Rank....but never have they stopped a individual from calling themselves Jedi. From my own observations as limited as they may be.

That is because they cant stop people... DO I need a disclaimer? Come on, read what I mean Kitsu...

So, they work within the framework that they can...

If a person knowing nothing of two people, lets just say you and I, meet us, you being the Great Jedi Kitsu, I and I being some clown from the internet with no training similar to yours, and there is no visual indicators to rank, or knowledge, who carries more "weight" in the eyes of the new person?

Neither...

Because a Jedi, is a Jedi, is a Jedi...

But, then add some ranks... We actually dont like them here either... Well, there are a few who do, but most of us do not... Despite the popular thinking about us... Its why we dont use them in our usernames, and why I patrol the new folks to cull rank names...

However, when you come to TOTJO, if you are ranked/status-ed, then it says you have begun the self improvement...

Jestor wrote: That is because they cant stop people... DO I need a disclaimer? Come on, read what I mean Kitsu...

Really? :dry: :dry: