What is TOTJO?

Why can't Jedi be "elitists"? US Army Special Force are elite, and they are some of the most chill people I've come to know. Alas, "elite" is not the word we're looking to create among the Jedi Ranks. But it's not far off from what we should be striving for- standards (not to be confused with standardization, standards).

The US Coast Guard has standards, and...on some level...although sorta sad...it weeds people out by whether or not the group can get along with them in basic training. Which was something I observed as being very different from the US Army. The Coast Guard can afford to do this though, because our numbers have to remain low. So they look for reasons to get rid of the bad apples. "After week 5, typically you will get canned because of your peers, not the Company Commanders." (told to us directly by our CCs). As terrible as that sounds, we had to convince our peers that we were good people, and were willing to pull our own weight. After that, you still have 6 months at your first unit to get chopped before the CG decides they are going to invest a bit of time into you. So for just under a year, you're constantly working on proving your worth. Because the Coast Guard has standards, and they don't want you on the team if you are not committed.

That's not elitism, though I'm sure you can spin it that way. Pride, certainly, there is a lot of that. But look at the job we are trying to accomplish. That sort of stuff is important to accomplishing the mission.

For a long time, one of the issues people had with the Jedi Circle (Opie's piece) was that it labelled a few things as misconceptions that people couldn't agree with. The other issue was that it was too easily applied to every other mainstream good natured religion. In more recent times, Opie looked to amend these problems and replaced the Five Misconceptions with the Five Goals:

1) Train Diligently
2) Provide Support
3) Render Aid
4) Defend Those in Need
5) Study the Force

By changing one simple piece to the puzzle, suddenly the whole point of why a Jedi does what they do became clear. It isn't about elitism though- it's about setting up a standard for what clarifies a Jedi over just that wants to play Jedi on a role-playing forum (I'm not referring to ToTJO, mind you, I'm talking about a legit "we role-play" forum that has a Star Wars theme).

What is ToTJO? It reminds me of Hogwarts (just follow me for a moment). Training happens in the class rooms, there is a lot of socialization in public view, and in private there is spiritual support which may or may not begin in the outer forums.

But what if we brought more of the training out of the class rooms and into the social scene? Would that in any way resolve some of the problem people have that it may be too social on the outside? Just curious on the thoughts there.

What would "bringing more training out into the open" look like?

Rosalyn J wrote: What would "bringing more training out into the open" look like?

Pretty much exactly what we do on the forums now, except in private, people would think back on it and go "Oh. Okay."

One thing to remember: Knighthood.

One must find a teacher, do the work. Acceptance as an apprentice is not promised, let alone a date with the trials. Success is not a given.

I freely acknowledge that the standards of knighthood are not universal. Still, over time, if we are diligent, knight training will be refined. Give it time.

Perhaps the Knights and Masters are the elite, the examples to live up to. I think we could all agree that they should be. I wholeheartedly believe they can be.

And the rest of us are working on it.

Jestor wrote:

Oneiros wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: The problem with this argument is that it hinges on definitions we don't have yet, as a community. It's easy to point at someone who doesn't believe Christ died on the cross for the remission of sins, or refuses to follow his teachings, and say "they're not a Christian." Why? Because the definition of Christianity, in Christian scriptures, revolves around the Christ. That's an easy pick, it's rather black-or-white at that point, on that issue.

Jediism doesn't have that. At all. There is no concensus among the Jedi community except an eternally vague "belief in the Force."

And that is exactly what brought about this thread. We have people coming here, promoting ideas and beliefs that are viewed by the vast majority as un-Jedi (if we can use that term) and then they complain about intolerance. We have a code, doctrine, maxims, teachings, and we have the myth. Perhaps it's time for the leaders of the various parts of the community to get together and iron out the details.

I doubt it would happen....

We are too "open" they (others) have thus far been too restrictive..

And I checked the others out before committing here too... and again after my knighthood... I'm most comfortable here...

We tried to be more restrictive, and everyone got upset... lol..

Which is awesome....

My point was, if we are here to help others along the Jedi path, then what was wrong with a little distance between the learning, and the socializing? Which can contain lessons, don't get me wrong... lol...

But, perhaps I want other Jedi (member through master) opinions, and don't really care what a non-jedi says? Where I'm not having to defend myself from thoughts I'm not prepared to defend... Thoughts that I need help finalizing, before someone picks it apart with my inadequacies, lol...

So a forum for everyone, socializing and debate, but maybe group discussions for growth too with like minded folks only... Am I going to lose anything bybnot getting opposing views? Maybe, maybe not...

Opinions vary...

Wescli, probably my best friend here, and I don't agree on every point, but we do a lot too...

So, the "everyone thinking the same" is the same generalization that saying "the guests are trouble makers" is....

At least I think so...

I think having separate places for like minded discussions is a good thought. Not sure about it's practical application, but at face value I like it.

It's unfortunate that I keep hearing that it wouldn't work if all the leaders got together and finalized something. I think that speaks volumes as to where the order actually is in its development.

Oneiros wrote: It's unfortunate that I keep hearing that it wouldn't work if all the leaders got together and finalized something. I think that speaks volumes as to where the order actually is in its development.

On the contrary, it speaks volumes of our understanding of human nature. Something that no amount of religion or philosophy will ever fully remove from us.

I'm not 100% sure what that would look like.

I mean..A drawback that FA's LA had was that when people came in there was little to no activity on the outside. In more recent weeks, I've taken to posting a little bit on the outside. It's generating decent discussion. Pelar's idea that the Jedi Code should be negotiated has spurred some interesting comments as well.

The discussions we are having though are more focused on how a Jedi lives their life as a Jedi given circumstances. Sadly, what little I've tried to spring up in the DA hasn't really gone anywhere in terms of discussion... But I would imagine what I'm talking about would look more like discussions that take the Jedi Code into consideration for a decision making model or how a Jedi should consider the Jedi Code in everything they do.

Actually... come to think of it, I might start up the Pelar discussion here. Not in demonstration of this idea, but because I'd like to see where it goes !

steamboat28 wrote:

Oneiros wrote: It's unfortunate that I keep hearing that it wouldn't work if all the leaders got together and finalized something. I think that speaks volumes as to where the order actually is in its development.

On the contrary, it speaks volumes of our understanding of human nature. Something that no amount of religion or philosophy will ever fully remove from us.

So shouldn't we be better than base human nature? Or are we just going to accept our shortcomings and not do anything to change that? We should be able to rise above these things, not use them as an excuse as to why something doesn't work. I think there is an amount of philosophy that will remove that from us. However, I don't think that everyone is capable of achieving it.

Gotta go to bed but I'll be back tomorrow. Good night all PM me if you prefer.

Human beings are by nature DIVERSE and we need to account for that diversity. Its not about rising above ourselves, it is allowing the space for people to be authentic. There are several different sects of THE BIG religions. Nobody suggests that they all need to get together and come up with a defining set of rules, standards, whatever. We fully acknowledge that while there are some similarities there are also some differences and so we each have a space.

Oneiros wrote: So shouldn't we be better than base human nature?

When we completely rid ourselves of human nature, we cease to be human. Is that your goal?