What is TOTJO?

In light of all the recent hubbub....

This was said to me in a PM....

The problem is that we allow everyone to talk and be heard. I know, that sounds bad. But, some (maybe more than we think) are not here to learn and grow. they are jsut here to socialize. And we allow (we being a broad grouping of individuals) their opions to bear a weight they are not merrited. Sure their opinion counts. Does a sith's opinion count in Jedi related ideas or views? Probably not so much. And the people let them get to them and egg them on.

So, what is the goal of The Temple of the Jedi Order?

Teach Jedi?
Social site?
Both?

The recent events has made me wonder...

What are we here for?

To help others find what they need?

Or to be open to everyone?

We have been critisized for being too open, too all encompassing, for not having "tight" enough beliefs...

But then we try to tighten things up, and now we have offended some people, excluded them...

So, then we would not be open enough...

So, what exactly do you think TOTJO is?

I'm taking a poll soon, and will add suggestions to it in this quote...

So, what is TOTJO?

1. Jedi training
2. Spiritual support
3. Social Site

I know it can be, and is, more than one thing...

But the voting won't be for a week...

Hands up if you think "socializing" and "learning" are mutually exclusive...

Play is one of the earliest (and most effective) methods of learning.

Socializing is a way to understand other people. To see new perspectives. To communicate with them in a way that is genuine and unguarded.

Why do we break experiences up into categories? "this is where I only "learn"... "this is where I only "talk".

Much like people break up their lives. And miss out on the details because of it.

I stick to the definition of a religious Temple, which I think covers all aspects mentioned in the OP. It's a meeting space, a place of education, and, importantly, a place of refuge and support. We have different rooms for different things, and we're more than happy to let visitors in for a look around, to talk and engage with them in some spaces and not in others. We have ceremonies, sermons, services. We have a support network, various educational programmes and a central mentoring scheme, based around our doctrine.

Regarding the recent changes, we're not a monastery and don't seek to divorce ourselves from non-members or the outside world, but in the same way I might choose to go into town to do my shopping but stay at home to file my tax return, sometimes it's most appropriate for us to communicate publicly, and others to do so in relative privacy.

Hindus don't have "tight" beliefs, taken as a group. They're still recognised as a religion by most.

I completely agree with what was said in that PM. I have found myself getting frustrated at some of the things people post, but I do my best to keep my emotions in check. Sadly, none of us have had Jedi training since we were young kids so we all essentially have to relearn how to react to things like that.

As for what I believe the site should be about, I think it should be more about training Jedi than anything else. There needs to be more focus on teaching and real, measurable progress made. My goal one day is to have my PhD in international relations and teach at a university, then establish a school where I and likeminded individuals can offer private schooling in academics AND Jedi philosophy to train a generation of real Jedi equipped to take on real world problems. If the site was more focused on promoting education and consolidating its viewpoints, we'd be closer to having things a real temple and a real community.

Not everyone in the galaxy could be part of the Jedi Order of myth, thus we cannot just accept everyone, let them bring in harmful ideas, and then say that we should just be tolerant of it. We should be tolerant in the sense that we don't judge and metaphorically burn people at the stake for how they think, but that doesn't mean we have to let them into the Order. I'm American so freedom of speech is pretty important to me, but I'm not so red white and blue that I can't admit that some things just shouldn't be said. There are certain viewpoints and ways of thinking that are not conducive to a Jedi lifestyle and people who promote those viewpoints should not be considered Jedi.

How is this even an issue?

There is nothing wrong with how it is. What is TOTJO?

What is JEDIISM? Who am I? Who are you?

This is a terrible path to go down. It leads to elitism. Jedi are not "elite". We are the most accepting spiritual movement I have ever run into.

People want to get upset because there are stupid opinions out there and we occasionally have to read them?

Whoever it is, is having an ego issue, plain and simple.

If YOU are a Jedi who only discusses serious topics, can parkour to work and back, and whatever else it is that makes you a "serious" and "real" Jedi GREAT. Start a club. HERE we should remain open to everyone. It has to do with practicing what we preach.

I swear on the Force if this turns into a special underwear selling, cover charge to keep out the riff-raff, "Us not You" clubhouse, I'm out. That is about as Un-Jedi as it gets in my book.

Oh, and Brenna is right too. *raises hand*

Sorry. Excluding people is a touchy thing for me.

The most powerful lessons I have learned thus far while being here is most definitely through socializing, much like kids learn while being in school, and adults while in college.

Attempting to keep the proverbial sheep "safe" is denying them the opportunity to learn, converse and grow. Otherwise you are just encouraging a think tank of "fluffy thinkers." Social skills are important, and are learned outside of one's comfort zone, by socializing. If individuals can't handle themselves in a forum without learning how to handle themselves, what's that say about their offline lives?

rugadd wrote: This is a terrible path to go down. It leads to elitism. Jedi are not "elite". We are the most accepting spiritual movement I have ever run into.

It won't lead to elitism if we practice humility. I very much respect your opinion and pointing out the possible pitfalls of this is extremely important so that we all remain mindful of how to conduct ourselves and how to implement any changes should they be made. However, if we hope to one day be a respected religion/philosophy/Order/whatever, we have to set ourselves apart from others through action. Anyone can follow Jediism, but not everyone who follows will become Jedi. There does need to be a standard so that when people think of Jedi they have a clear picture in their mind.

I did some digging around into peoples thoughts on what the Temple meant to them a few months ago. You might remember my survey monkey....

Peoples thoughts on what it was and why they came here were as diverse as I had expected it would be. Perspectives are different, and what we get out of the experience of being here is the as diverse.

One of the reasons I don't hold with "traditional" religions or whatever you'd like to call it, is because people separate their life from their "belief".

I grew up surrounded by people who went to church or temple when they were supposed to, and carried on in their day to day life with no sense of their beliefs or values the rest of the week.

And I know a few people who are so strict in their literal adherence to doctrine that it prevents them from participating in simply living.

Balance.

1. Jedi training
2. Spiritual support
3. Social Site

Can we not do all these things here and still be in line with our doctrine?

but

I think that there are ways to do this without allowing some of the issues that has made it difficult for some to take TOTJO seriously as a place of training.

For me TOTJO is all of the three things listed in the OP... If one of those things were missing I'm not sure I'd be here, I believe they are equally important.

Oneiros wrote: There does need to be a standard so that when people think of Jedi they have a clear picture in their mind.

The problem with this statement is that it is ignorant to all the other paths and ways of Jedi. Please do not take "Ignorant" as rude, meerly understand that I am attempting to prove a small point.

That point is simply. TotJO is not the ONLY Definition and Way of Jedi. There needs to be a clear understanding of that. TotJO needs to be more mindful of the fact that when they say "Jedi" in their descriptions.....They mean THEIR Jedi and THEIR ideals and THEIR Standards.

Not everyone who is Jedi will line up with TotJO foundations.

Gathered Force Community is purely a Social Community which fullfills all the Social needs of community users. But we do not discourage or attempt to claim "The Only" or "The best" or "The most" status. Those actions and statements are what leads to Elitism....not directive purpose and goals.

In my opinion TotJO Should focus on their "Church" Goals and clearly define that it is THEIR "way" of Jediism.

Be very very careful of generalizations *Bows*