Jedi and Drugs

I still think this comes down to a couple of direct factors related to the use of specific drugs and under specific circumstances, not so much in regards to a moral standing on the issue - because a moral standing that is held as true by one isn't going to be held as true by everyone else.

Excess of anything isn't good.
Taking a substance which inhibits your ability to maintain good judgement when you know you're headed for a situation that is potentially dangerous (or even just unfamiliar) is irresponsible, and seems to not only go against the Jedi code, but plain common sense. So I agree there.

However I don't agree, on a personal level, that just because something might happen while one is under the influence of a substance, is a good enough reason to cast a blanket on the use of any substance. I also think that the intended use of a substance has bearing on the so-called moral aspects of its use, and whether or not it's being used in a way utterly contrary to the Jedi ideal. What about drugs medical purposes that inhibit ones abilities to function, to drive, to operate machinery or otherwise think and act quickly? Marijuana is becoming a staple for many cancer patients and chronic-disease patients, and when it's a high-THC variety it certainly makes it more difficult to respond to certain conditions (though in small amounts, THC apparently improves hand/eye coordination). What about drugs specifically used to help expand inner awareness for ceremonial purposes? I think part of the discussion would have to be deciding if the problem is specifically just illegal drugs and alcohol, or if the wider layer of approved medications that have "fogging" effects are also an issue. Or maybe it's just drugs used during social situations, where there's no real purpose to their use beyond "social lubrication" (which often leads to unfortunate side effects, on several levels, anyway).

This is certainly a personal issue, one which will be seen from many angles depending on individual personal history and upbringing, so it's fair to say that there will be points of contention between diametrically opposed positions.

I drink tea and coffee, considered an Eco-drug :blink:

I don't care about drugs ...

Addictions are the dangerous things. It is not necessary that a "product" be consumed for this phenomenon to be plainly and forcefully operative. There are sex addictions, gambling addictions (as well as other types of games), shopping &c., stimulating the risk/reward centres of the (extended) brain and influencing our behaviours - even/especially mental behaviours - into ineffective motifs, namely doing ourselves in and thinking we enjoy it. :pinch:

And we can discuss, debate and justify all we want to - perfectly reasonably, of course - because the addiction defends itself quite well. We don't call it a disturbance, we call it a passion ... Anyone who knows anything about etymology would see the rub right away ...

I've said this before : addictions are pretty damned sneaky - they are of the variety of conditions that makes you think - insist even - that you don't have it. And, quite naturally, one thinks that one's excuses prove that one doesn't have it.

The Jedi Way is a Self-centred one ; all Jedi are the axis mundi of his/her own cosmology, the created creator of her/his own cosmogony. As such, eat and drink whatever, shag whomever, how ever and how ever many you want to, bet it all on the dogs or shop 'til you drop and as long as you aren't harming others, engage in whatever self-destructive behaviours you feel are right for you. After all, Jedi have no sin. :woohoo:

However ...

If one is not engaged fully, with total conscious awareness then it is a futile gesture. Much of what makes us engage in these things - be they drugs, alcohol, games or sex - is not for mere hedonism, but for how the altered state of our consciousness permits us to feel about our own sense of self-worth, of numbing the hurts that we feel from quasi-constant shame (that we don't even admit we feel), the vital need to fit in, to avoid or escape (if only boredom), to believe what we think we want to believe about being fully alive ...

hmmm ... sounds to me like some of those ineffective motifs that do us in and make us think we like it. :blink:

As Krishnamurti pointed out to us, we have for thousands of years been looking for a method, a technique, some-bloody-thing that is going to let us feel a little more secure and not quite so screwed by being mortal. When something that we are repeating - from getting stoned to getting stuff to getting laid - is what lets us feel alive more than our own breathing and beating hearts ... that can be considered an addiction and thus, one is off of one's axis. :huh:

Don't worry though -- you're still connected to the Force, you just can't use It very well ...

Akkarin wrote: Let's consider this debate from another perspective. Alethea I do not know if you are a vegetarian/vegan but one could probably make an incredibly strong argument as to why absolutely every Jedi should avoid meat/dairy products. One could probably make a much stronger case for this than for your proposition on grounds of compassion, empathy, environment and justice.

We'll start another thread later on, because I don't see any strong arguments for being vegan. Vegetarian with emphasis on free range animals, sure I could see someone making that argument. But even then, I could see the argument that anything could have "a life, spirit and a name"- therefore you have to find another way to live in harmony with the fact that you're eating everything around you. The arguments are too dissimilar, drug addiction is not necessary for life until after you're addicted to certain substances.

Akkarin wrote: "Jedi ain't perfect"

No, we're not . There is a difference between falling and just doing something because you wanted to. Someone overcoming addiction could be going through a "trial of the flesh", such things only strengthen the character and resolve of an individual on the hero's journey .

Alethea Thompson wrote: We also encourage people to get out into the world, know the world for what it is. That can be social, or it could be through the lens of connecting with the environment.

Akkarin wrote: Alcohol and drugs (of all kinds) are a common part of the world "as it is". What about connecting with others and the world through the lens of intoxication or being high?

You don't have to be high to connect with such people. You don't have to be highly intoxicated either. In fact, you would probably be better off communicating with them with a clear mind. Seeing someone in their most vulnerable times goes a long ways in helping them overcome their own selves- because they finally realize there is someone there that actually cares about them.

Aqua wrote: I drink tea and coffee, considered an Eco-drug :blink:

How on earth is that eco? Grow weed in your garden:
-Very resilient plant, does not require artificial light, greenhouse, pesticide, or particular food to grow.
-The Co2 emissions from processing/consuming the flowers, or walking between your house and your garden, are negligible and likely inferior to the quantities of Co2 that are absorbed by the plant.
-Byproducts are 100% biodegradable and can be used as fuel or to declare independence from England.

Also, the consumption of the plant will decrease your energetic consumption and activity levels, while the caffeine in tea and coffee will do the opposite; make you keep your lights on at night or make you drive for longer.

:whistle:

ren wrote:

Aqua wrote: I drink tea and coffee, considered an Eco-drug :blink:

How on earth is that eco? Grow weed in your garden:
-Very resilient plant, does not require artificial light, greenhouse, pesticide, or particular food to grow.
-The Co2 emissions from processing/consuming the flowers, or walking between your house and your garden, are negligible and likely inferior to the quantities of Co2 that are absorbed by the plant.
-Byproducts are 100% biodegradable and can be used as fuel or to declare independence from England.

Also, the consumption of the plant will decrease your energetic consumption and activity levels, while the caffeine in tea and coffee will do the opposite; make you keep your lights on at night or make you drive for longer.

:whistle:

Dont forget you might empty your fridge in one night xD

I'm personally not a fan of DARE. I consider it anti-drug propaganda. I don't like how they use scare tatics and bias information to get kids to "say no".
This YouTube video makes my point pretty clear: http://youtu.be/SB2L9cL-6mU

So little time and so much to read: Is alcohol on this list? Alcohol nearly destroyed my life (quite literally). If the suggestion is being made that recreational drug use should be prohibited, than alcohol most definitely deserves to be on this list. I have no interest in discussing semantics about this: If you don't know what I mean, than I don't possibly have the time to explain it satisfactorily, and wouldn't waste the effort to do so. Sorry if that ends up labeling me however.

Pragmatically yours,
BryanJerome

Venator Mortis wrote:

ren wrote:

Aqua wrote: I drink tea and coffee, considered an Eco-drug :blink:

How on earth is that eco? Grow weed in your garden:
-Very resilient plant, does not require artificial light, greenhouse, pesticide, or particular food to grow.
-The Co2 emissions from processing/consuming the flowers, or walking between your house and your garden, are negligible and likely inferior to the quantities of Co2 that are absorbed by the plant.
-Byproducts are 100% biodegradable and can be used as fuel or to declare independence from England.

Also, the consumption of the plant will decrease your energetic consumption and activity levels, while the caffeine in tea and coffee will do the opposite; make you keep your lights on at night or make you drive for longer.

:whistle:

Dont forget you might empty your fridge in one night xD

indeed. However I do not feel this counts as energy consumption, but as energy storage. In fact, thanks for bringing that up to my attention. Consuming weed will cause you to form a thick layer of fat around your body, keeping you warm in winter, and therefore reducing your winter fuel consumption

Should have been in my classes. I was more fun. Though some days I wonder if our "ninja" was more fun.

Can't blanket everyone. If you're officer was drab, and used nothing but scare tactics, that's on the officer him/herself. We are taught to bring our own flair into the classroom to keep people engaged. Sure we teach healthy mind, healthy life, but if you're sticking to the book alone, and not integrating practical exercises or the full range of creativity at your disposal, it's just not going to reach the students. Furthermore, getting them to make a decision now, doesn't mean they will stick to it later when peer pressure becomes a thing.