Jedi and Drugs

Alethea Thompson wrote: As for your emergency services that do drugs and are available to help others. Responsible drinking is fine, it doesn't mean that they are ALWAYS available. If they are over the .08 limit (in most areas, some have a lower rate), they legally cannot do anything. You might let them, that doesn't make you or them right, or responsible in allowing it.

I haven't had alcohol in around five years so a blood/alcohol level of .05 would leave me quite intoxicated but you would still be comfortable with me helping someone in that condition because it's under the legal limit?
But if I'd used LSD three weeks prior and was otherwise completely sober I shouldn't be allowed to help?

Alethea Thompson wrote: And if they are illegally taking drugs (or abusing them for that matter), they don't need to be on a team that responds to emergencies. That's my stance, you're not changing it- and what you have just told me is that while you are a great nurse, you should never be put in a position of hiring other nurses.

You seem to be under the impression that people who use illegal drugs are using them all the time and that people are forever warped and skewed in their views. I'm sorry to it say so bluntly but that's an extremely narrowminded and uninformed view on an otherwise complex topic.

The legal limit, where ever I am, is unfortunately the only thing I could hold you to. At that point, the only thing I could hold against you is if you were acting a fool. The law believes that at .08 (in most places) your ability to function with sound decision making and reactionary time goes out the window.

That's really only if there isn't an SOP stating that if you've had a drop of alcohol you're off. I would imagine most do, but if they do not, you rely on the law. It's a long list of things, but ultimately if you're relying on the law to determine whether or not someone can be on a scene as an emergency services rep, then someone dropped the ball in their operating procedures. :laugh:

And I'm not under that impression, the limit is only on certain personnel. If I'm working an average desk job, and the person sitting next to me likes to get lit after work, that's on them.

Khaos, you'd be surprised. In the capacity that I can help others, I am always available to help, even when I've got my son with me. Most of the interactions I have are with people via text, voice or some other form of social media. When I'm out and about, I am available because I have the ability to get creative. Can I always evaluate a casualty if I have Makai with me? No, but I have a phone, and I have enough training to direct people around me if they are present to do what they need to do.

Being available means being creative. You get that best by being on top of your game. Having the ability to multi-task. I'm always available to help, I just might not be the right person to help- but I can get you to the right person.

Alethea Thompson wrote: And I'm not under that impression, the limit is only on certain personnel. If I'm working an average desk job, and the person sitting next to me likes to get lit after work, that's on them.

Where's the difference? If an EMT is off work it shouldn't matter what they do. Others would be on call.

So I've been thinking some more on this topic...

Alethea your argument seems to be Jedi should be available to help people and one cannot do this if they are intoxicated or high. Ok sure that makes sense.

But wait... hang on a minute... you seem to be arguing a One-Size-Fits-All idea of being a Jedi.

If a Jedi is a Hero on their own Hero's Journey then part of that very definition means one's life will be a journey, shaped by one's individuality, of self-discovery and exploration. There is no such thing as one-size-fits-all in Jediism. There is no Jedi "Path", there are only "Paths".

I think insisting Jedi must fit any particular, and very strict, criteria reduces the very value being a Jedi offers people - an outlet to escape from a prescription of social expectation and the imposition of required adherence to practices and beliefs we disagree with from authorities who demand obedience because they think they know what's best for us.

The requirement that Jedi "must always be able and ready to help people" is as silly as the requirement that Jedi "must learn martial arts". This isn't because helping people is wrong, it isn't because learning martial arts is wrong, it's because insisting everyone must eat pistachio ice cream despite there being a range of flavours is wrong. I mean seriously... pistachio? :sick:

There are as many ways of being a Jedi as there are Jedi. The Jedi in this temple are a like-minded community of people who share common beliefs and ideals and who value the variance our mutually beneficial journeys of Self-exploration bring to ourselves and others.

How do you practice being a Jedi Alethea? Being a Jedi for you means being available to help people at any given moment in time? Great!

Do I help people? Absolutely I do! But helping other people by being available at any given moment in time is not one of the criteria of my Jedi Path. I don't live each moment wondering "what if", I live each moment.

Just a personal opinion, and apologies if others have already posted this before, but Graham Hancock is very good on this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0c5nIvJH7w

So what do we do for those who like drugs and those that don't like drug. About drug for spirit lol. But why should we believe that only drug can open up the spirit or all the way to the force . can't say that plants and drugs are made on purpose but since it's all for nature drug'S one can't say it all the way and all the time illegal for everyone . and why should we repress dose who like that ? hum .

We are all probably Jedi on the streets and Sith in the sheets, so I guess we have to be realistic about what we might be capable of at any moment in time and be mindful of compensating for any reductions to ones capacity to perceive accurately, decide effectively and act appropriately. I wouldn't advocate a blanket ban on all things which might reduce ones capacity, as I think it would not be genuine - a line would have to be drawn somewhere and that line might very well be in a different place for each individual. I think as Jedi it us up to us to be true to our true self instead.

:blink: :huh: :dry:

Akkarin wrote: So I've been thinking some more on this topic...

Alethea your argument seems to be Jedi should be available to help people and one cannot do this if they are intoxicated or high. Ok sure that makes sense.

But wait... hang on a minute... you seem to be arguing a One-Size-Fits-All idea of being a Jedi.

If a Jedi is a Hero on their own Hero's Journey then part of that very definition means one's life will be a journey, shaped by one's individuality, of self-discovery and exploration. There is no such thing as one-size-fits-all in Jediism. There is no Jedi "Path", there are only "Paths".

Except I don't agree with your assessment that it is JUST about living a Hero's Journey.

3. Jedi are aware of the future impacts of action and inaction and of the influence of the past, but live in and focus on the Now. We let ourselves flow like water through the events around us. We embrace the ever changing and fluid world, adapting and changing as it does.

11. Jedi are mindful of their thoughts. We recognise the beauty in others and we provide help to those who come seeking it. Through our benevolent actions we strengthen not only ourselves but also our communities. Jedi act without prejudice.

You cannot be mindful of your thoughts if you are under the influence.

10. Jedi serve in many ways. Each action performed, no matter the scale, influences the world. With this in mind Jedi perform each action with peace, caring, love, compassion and humility. So it is that each Jedi improves the world with each deed they perform.

Your actions even under the influence of a substance could lead to anything. By combining this with 3 & 11, you are best able to see where the course of your actions (whatever you do) will take.

14. Jedi are guardians of peace. We believe in helping all those that are in need, in whatever form, to the best of our ability. We recognise that sometimes providing help requires courage in the face of adversity but understand that conflict is resolved through peace, understanding and harmony.

Under the influence, you will not know how to properly act in a situation. You make mistakes, you might get lucky and make the right choices, why risk it?

5. Jedi understand that well-being consists in the physical, the mental and the spiritual. A Jedi trains each to ensure they remain capable of performing their duties to the best of their ability. All of these are interconnected and essential parts of our training in becoming more harmonious with the Force

.

It can be argued that many of the drugs that people engage in for occasional recreational use does not inhibit the physical (unless you're talking about nicotine, I've left nicotine out of the conversation and will continue to do so, not because I've ever smoked it [I haven't], but rather it's status makes it difficult to address. At least with Alcohol I can say "moderation", nicotine...well it's it's own class of discussion, lol), it does inhibit your abilities while your under the influence. During those periods, you cannot be sure what you are experiencing is real or fabricated by the drugs you are taking. You cannot have a fully integrated connection between the physical, mental and spiritual during those times.

I think insisting Jedi must fit any particular, and very strict, criteria reduces the very value being a Jedi offers people - an outlet to escape from a prescription of social expectation and the imposition of required adherence to practices and beliefs we disagree with from authorities who demand obedience because they think they know what's best for us.

We also encourage people to get out into the world, know the world for what it is. That can be social, or it could be through the lens of connecting with the environment.

The requirement that Jedi "must always be able and ready to help people" is as silly as the requirement that Jedi "must learn martial arts". This isn't because helping people is wrong, it isn't because learning martial arts is wrong, it's because insisting everyone must eat pistachio ice cream despite there being a range of flavours is wrong. I mean seriously... pistachio? :sick:

They are completely different arguments. "able and ready" do not mean that you will. "Able and ready" means that you are capable. It's not a requirement to actually act. For some, they might decide to NOT help, because in the long run it would be detrimental. Martial Arts may be completely impractical, but being capable of helping when the need arises, is not impractical at all.

There are as many ways of being a Jedi as there are Jedi. The Jedi in this temple are a like-minded community of people who share common beliefs and ideals and who value the variance our mutually beneficial journeys of Self-exploration bring to ourselves and others.

Going back to a Khaos-esque question: If you here to be nothing more than a self-explorer, are you a Jedi, or are you working on becoming a Jedi?

The Hero's Journey is a facet. A piece to the puzzle. But to fully be a part of the Jedi Path (even by the standards at Temple of the Jedi Order) you have to adopt the philosophy that you are going to do your best to live by the Doctrine. Without that Doctrine, you're just someone that enjoys the experience of a Hero's Journey, and find value in what you're learning from it. But you don't need to be a Jedi to find value in the Hero's Journey. You can be, literally, anything and live out the Hero's Journey.

Alethea Thompson wrote: You cannot be mindful of your thoughts if you are under the influence.

Yes. Yes, you are. You are in fact extremely mindful of your thoughts. You may think a hundred thoughts within seconds or linger on one idea for hours. There's a reason drugs throughout human history has been a part of spiritual journeys, rituals and rites of passage.

Alethea Thompson wrote: It can be argued that many of the drugs that people engage in for occasional recreational use does not inhibit the physical (unless you're talking about nicotine, I've left nicotine out of the conversation and will continue to do so, not because I've ever smoked it , but rather it's status makes it difficult to address. At least with Alcohol I can say "moderation", nicotine...well it's it's own class of discussion, lol), it does inhibit your abilities while your under the influence. During those periods, you cannot be sure what you are experiencing is real or fabricated by the drugs you are taking. You cannot have a fully integrated connection between the physical, mental and spiritual during those times.

Believe me, there's still a clear distinction between reality and fantasy when under the influence of most drugs. Very few compounds are decidedly dissociative and will lead to disintegration from the physical world. The word "hallucinations" is often misused in this context as there are very hallucinating drugs. Even the "bad boys" such as LSD does not produce actual hallucinations, it produces visuals, which can be seen a visual manifestation of an idea but you are fully aware that it is not real. You don't get see dragons in the kitchen and start wondering how they got there but you might imagine them being there and be able to better envisage it. But actual hallucinations are very rare and takes equally rare drugs such as scopolamine or Datura to produce. Luckily, drugs such as these have no recreational value.

If you have never tried mind expanding drugs I will venture the claim that you shouldn't bless or condemn them because it is in a very literal sense a realm which you know nothing about.