Jedi and Drugs

It's strange though that people think a drug, which is of course an outsidexsource, somehow produces an effect outside you.

Once ingested, like any food, which mushrooms are, and many plant based drugs, produce an internal effect, and that experience is not brought about from the outside, anything you confront, not unlike luke and the cave, would be what you took with you, or more accurately already had there.

The cave analogy is quite apt,though I only had one bad trip out of....Well a lot, and well leave it at that.

The difference is, most people like to escape there subconscious, and a psychedelic does not allow that.

Again, like the cave.

I wonder, how much is fear of Tue unknown inside ones self, perhaps even with meditation, etc, your still very much a creator with a preferred rose colored glasses view.

A psychedelic gives you exactly what you are, without your clever defenses and B.S.

As even though I only had one "bad" trip, that was only brought about by refusal to face things that were shown to me in regards to myself.

In case your wondering, we always had someone sober but versed with the substance as our resident shaman. Or designated driver, as it were.

It was only about 15 minutes of...time, which isn't the same inside the experience, and I didn't have what people would call a freak out.

Khaos wrote: It's strange though that people think a drug, which is of course an outsidexsource, somehow produces an effect outside you.

Once ingested, like any food, which mushrooms are, and many plant based drugs, produce an internal effect, and that experience is not brought about from the outside, anything you confront, not unlike luke and the cave, would be what you took with you, or more accurately already had there.

That's quite a solipsist view of yourself. If your beliefs are that you are one and only with everything that surrounds you (and one with the Force, that binds us and penetrates us), that is, the buddhist concept of Anatta, then yes, it has an effect outside you.

I just happened upon 2 interesting H.H Dalai Lama quotes;

"The problem of describing the subjective experiences of consciousness is complex indeed. For we risk objectivizing what is essentially an internal set of experiences and excluding the necessary presence of the experiencer. We cannot remove ourselves from the equation."

"what is required... is nothing short of a paradigm shift. That is, the third person perspective which we can measure phenomena from the point of view of an independent observer, must be integrated with a first person perspective, which will allow the incorporation of subjectivity and the qualities that characterize the experience of consciousness. I am suggesting the need for the method of our investigation to be appropriate to the object of inquiry."

Which does remind me of Luke facing himself in the cave :huh:

joseaplaza wrote:

Khaos wrote: It's strange though that people think a drug, which is of course an outsidexsource, somehow produces an effect outside you.

Once ingested, like any food, which mushrooms are, and many plant based drugs, produce an internal effect, and that experience is not brought about from the outside, anything you confront, not unlike luke and the cave, would be what you took with you, or more accurately already had there.

That's quite a solipsist view of yourself. If your beliefs are that you are one and only with everything that surrounds you (and one with the Force, that binds us and penetrates us), that is, the buddhist concept of Anatta, then yes, it has an effect outside you.

Solipsism has nothing to do with this, it simply means that a psychedelic is not able to create anything that isn't already in you. It does create dreams or visions or nightmares, it simply shows you the ones that are already in you but removing the defenses the brain has built around them. Everyone has these defenses because a mentally hyper-alert state is not conducive to daily chores.

Khaos wrote: :silly: Seems that in regards to the world being full of deceptions and illusions, that they hardly need drugs, or an altered state to convince them they have gotten some gain or benefit from said illusions and perceptions.

In fact, most of the deluded people I know aren't doing drugs. Or claim not to be. Of course, you could consider religion a drug....

Still if it's all crap, then what's to be gained regardless?

You have any source just as pointless, including Yoda as quote, and its interesting, as Luke got exactly what he craved....Also Yoda, and Obi-Wan who were in fact describing Luke at the time.

As we work through the IP we discover the illusions, delusions and lies we tell ourselves and others. In regards to Luke, just because you get what you want doesn’t mean it is the thing that should be motivating you. I’m sure someone as intelligent as you can agree with that, I hope. Yoda was not referring to what he should get, but what his motivations or driving forces should be in my opinion.

Calem wrote:

Wescli Wardest wrote: In a world of illusions and self-deception why would anyone try to convince themselves and others that the chemically induced state of illusion and delusion gained them any benefit? :blink:

How do you know? The arrogance involved in this statement is staggering because you haven't had the experiences I've had nor felt the changes I did.

I just had a conversation with a friend and we replaced the word drug with sparkle. And as I told him, “Anything used, done or what ever too much is bad. And if it took sparkles for someone to reach what they believed to be a level of enlightenment I would question that end. Was it real? I know they may believe it were real, but if they couldn't reproduce it without the aid of sparkles then I wonder what it was that sparkles was showing them was real.”

As to arrogance, what you experience is for you to decide. What I have discovered over the years helps me develop my opinions. If what I said is arrogance then it is quite possible that your view point is bias, being that it is only from your prospective and how it affects you. I am NOT calling you ignorant.


I have known many people that do and do not do drugs. I have lived quite a while. I have been all around the world. And I feel that I have had enough experience to honestly say, with no regret, that the negative affects most drugs have on people, long term, out ways any benefit they feel they may gain in the short term.

Wescli Wardest wrote:
I just had a conversation with a friend and we replaced the word drug with sparkle. And as I told him, “Anything used, done or what ever too much is bad. And if it took sparkles for someone to reach what they believed to be a level of enlightenment I would question that end. Was it real? I know they may believe it were real, but if they couldn't reproduce it without the aid of sparkles then I wonder what it was that sparkles was showing them was real.”

As to arrogance, what you experience is for you to decide. What I have discovered over the years helps me develop my opinions. If what I said is arrogance then it is quite possible that your view point is bias, being that it is only from your prospective and how it affects you. I am NOT calling you ignorant.


I have known many people that do and do not do drugs. I have lived quite a while. I have been all around the world. And I feel that I have had enough experience to honestly say, with no regret, that the negative affects most drugs have on people, long term, out ways any benefit they feel they may gain in the short term.

The arrogance wasn't in your opinion but in your invalidation of my experiences. Did a drug produce a certain effect (e.g. Nirvana)? Yes, it did but it was unintentional when it happened. Can I reproduce it without drugs? Most likely, yes, given time and training. And I will have an edge over most who attempt this because I know exactly what it's like.

Calem wrote: ... because I know exactly what it's like.

I know what you mean, and I've even gotten amazing insight from lucid dreams and hypnopompic experiences (which I'm not sure to call a dream or a hallucination!)!!

If you are so sure of the validity of your experience then why does it matter what anyone else thinks about it. If it's indeed real, then yes, as you said, you have the edge.

This thread is seeming more and more about defending and justifying ourselves than anything.

Brenna wrote: If you are so sure of the validity of your experience then why does it matter what anyone else thinks about it. If it's indeed real, then yes, as you said, you have the edge.

This thread is seeming more and more about defending and justifying ourselves than anything.

Because I find it disrespectful to invalidate another person's experience.

I didn’t think I was being disrespectful at all. Some of the things we seek to discover here is the unmasking of common false hoods and unlearning the lies we have been strapped with and handle our self with every day.

From my experience with drugs they are not reality nor do they show us reality. And as surprising as it may be to some, I do have a bit of experience with drugs. I do have a past after all.

If/when you learn to repeat your result without the aid of outside influence, just what comes from your internal connection to what is, please let me know about it. I would love to hear the comparison to what you experienced and what you then found.

I will tell you now that I have never duplicated anything I ever experienced while under the influence. But what I have found now is far more real and obtainable. I do not believe I am being rude or disrespectful at all… just honest. I did not intend to hurt your feelings when I wrote it or posted it and thought what I did write was rather cut and dry. Based off what I have experienced and learned. I’m sorry your feelings were hurt but I am not sorry for saying what I said. And I wish you well in your journey to find what you’re looking for.