Jedi and Drugs

As it were, I have at the same time too much and nothing to say about this ...

I've had a quite detailed conversation with Akkarin about this during the morning, which I'm sure he'll tell you something about in a following bit of writing.

The only thing I'll say to you about it now is this : there is no "the" Jedi way, even if it is one's own. This is another example of one's thoughts about what is virtuous or valiant becoming a spiritual authority which is often just as tyrannical and deceptive as one that is imposed by another. They often come back to the same sources, as one is much more conditioned into one's values - or what one is inculcated to value - than discovering them through a healthy equilibrium of intro- and outro-spection.

For those who enjoy with relative impunity "recreational" drug use : be very careful about what is true and what you think you might know about addictions. Now, many feel that the "addict" is someone who gets all strung-out and sells one's own mother to get what they need to use. It is really much more insidious than that. First, it is the only disease that tells you that you don't have it. It is not a 'mental' illness, but one of many psycho-physical processes in concert. One does not have to be destitute or using all the time to be "addicted" ; it is when the compulsion to use a product to "tune in" to "zone out" or to just "participate" in such things with others who do is favoured over one's own intuition and reason which both would point to such behaviour not being a very good idea. It comes to pass also that despite one's best intentions to not, one ends up doing it anyway when the opportunities or incitations arise. If this happens, it could be a very trustworthy warning that one is not "in control" of one's own behaviour. (Remember, it is a condition that tells you you don't have it ... ! You are not using your "free will" at this stage.)

I have some experience in this matter, so don't hesitate to come talk to me about this.

@Alethea Thompson: You've had some nasty, horrible experiences with drugs and combined with D.A.R.E. you seem to only see the negative effects of drug abuse. Not use, mind you, but abuse. It's Plato's Cave, you're only seeing the shadows on the wall but the actual reality is much more complex than that. But with your experiences I can understand why you're against drug use. However, I don't believe for one second in the 'just say no' ideology because even for a 5th grader the idea you're presenting them is in direct contradiction with the world they see. They're smart enough to figure out that something is not right when you tell them all these horror stories yet they see people voluntarily ingest and actively search for drugs, some even promoting it. Hence the facts doesn't add because if it actually were as bad as you claim, then why would people actively seek out these experiences? A 5th grader is smart enough to see through the inconsistency in those two realities.

Concerning being available and ready to act, would that entail never being allowed to turn off your phone? Or going further away than you can return within a reasonable time? In both cases you wouldn't be available, wouldn't be able to actively react to an emergency.

Legality of a drug has never concerned me, nor has legality of anything else as I deal with what is right or wrong rather than what's legal and illegal. Does the law keep me from randomly stealing other people's possessions? No, it doesn't. I don't do it because it's wrong, it hurts other people. The same goes for so many other things. Do I as a pedestrian abide to a red light in the middle of the night when there's not a soul in sight (and thus no danger for anyone, myself included)? No, I don't because it poses no threat to anyone for me to ignore it.
Keep in mind that majority of the most heinous, atrocious acts of war and genocide in human history was done so with the law in hand. When the Nazis occupied Denmark in 1940 thousands rallied around the Resistance here. Was it legal? No, the penalty was death. Was it right? Hell yes, it was right. Do not ever confuse law and moral, those two things have nothing to do with eachother and are in many cases mutually exclusive and contradictory to eachother.

Whenever I used drugs I was already unavailable to people. I've rarely smoked weed before sundown and as a general rule I had to have my chores done before doing so, whether it was work, school or home related. Select friends were informed if I was to engage in LSD or other time consuming drugs. That way they knew both not to call me and when to call me. So far not one has been forced to call me because I know what I'm doing, I know my limits, I know my drugs and my suppliers.

Drugs aren't for everyone, I acknowledge that and because of it I have never engaged in any coercion regarding drugs. When I used to host parties there was always a wide selection of drugs due to the friends I had at the time and new people were always offered but anyone who said "I don't do drugs" was never asked again. They weren't asked because we wanted them to do drugs, it was just a natural part of the party so in that sense it was the same as offering them a beer or a soda. This approach was an eye opener to a lot of people, I later learned.

On my path in life drugs has done good things for me, far more than bad. When I suffered severe insomnia for many years, cannabis helped me get some rest from time to time without having to resort to synthetic sleep aides. Psilocybin and LSD opened my mind in ways I couldn't imagine and revealed to me the true potential of the human being, our connection to Nature and our place in it. It made me understand it in ways that I hadn't even imagined before that. Mild empathogens (methylone, mostly) made me a more tolerant person and a better listener, making me understand (truly understand) that people follow very different paths in life, even though it's not always obvious.
Does this means I encourage the use of drugs? No, it doesn't. I encourage everyone to find out what the right thing is for them to do. It might be drugs. It might be extreme workout. Or meditation. It might be paintball. Or even eating chocolate pudding without using a spoon in a pillow fort at the age of forty. If it makes you a better person, if it broadens your world then I'm all for it. Just don't try to hinder me walking my path.

In the past year I've smoked cannabis on five, maybe six occasions and haven't used psychedelics for years so it's not like I'm writing this Hunter Thompson-style)

Yes, you have listed a lot of bad experiences with drugs, but this is selective. Were I to be so inclined I could come up with several scenarios and people who didnt crash and burn.

Some people abuse fast food.

We dont say it is un-jedi like to have hamburgers.

People, humans, become addicted to a lot of things to the point of self destruction.

Were we to start throwing out all the things humans do that are self-destructive, or potentially so, you would have no Jedi.

Then, if the case is to be available to help at all times,well, you best go old republic then.

No spouse, no kids, no distractions whatsoever.

Seems extreme?

Exactly.

I assume that people are able to get there lives in order enough to handle other responsibilities and be a Jedi.

Still, instead of saying "no attachements" you are being selective in them, which is worse, and next to impossible given the diversity in previous life experience, paths, etc and in some cases unwillingness to cooperate in regards to what it is to be a Jedi.

So ultimately, they are not a full Jedi in your eyes, but then, you have all the authority of what exactly?

None in a real sense.

The Jedi path is an arbitrary one.

As is any one persons opinion, authority, and choices.

Which is its strength and weakness as a path.

Also, you seem to have a personal axe to grind with drugs in and of itself, which in regards to clouded judgement on things and mindfulness, I would say you have your own.

No Attachments? Jedi are full of attachments (even if you read Shatterpoint, Mace explains that he has an attachment to the Jedi Order) there is a very large difference between overcoming them, and shoving them away completely. Those in emergency series are available when they need to be, regardless of having a family. They do put themselves on the line, and recognize that it is a sacrifice they are willing to make in order to make the world a better place. Some use their family as a motivation and purpose to find direction in their life. I do believe that there are Jedi find their reason for improving the world because of their attachments to people in general, some might find it solely for their family.

That's why we alter the Jedi Philosophy for real life. It's not practical to live without emotion.

My way isn't the only way. It's why I stated that not all orders have a stance. I take part in exactly 3 that DO have a clear stance against it, but I take part in a number of others that do not. It is my view, and it is simply one facet of what I would require of anyone I trained to the status of knight or master.

Alethea Thompson wrote: No Attachments? Jedi are full of attachments (even if you read Shatterpoint, Mace explains that he has an attachment to the Jedi Order) there is a very large difference between overcoming them, and shoving them away completely. Those in emergency series are available when they need to be, regardless of having a family. They do put themselves on the line, and recognize that it is a sacrifice they are willing to make in order to make the world a better place. Some use their family as a motivation and purpose to find direction in their life. I do believe that there are Jedi find their reason for improving the world because of their attachments to people in general, some might find it solely for their family.

That's why we alter the Jedi Philosophy for real life. It's not practical to live without emotion.

My way isn't the only way. It's why I stated that not all orders have a stance. I take part in exactly 3 that DO have a clear stance against it, but I take part in a number of others that do not. It is my view, and it is simply one facet of what I would require of anyone I trained to the status of knight or master.

So then ultimately, what is the point of mentioning it publicly?

Save it for those you train, as it is the only people it would really have any relevance to.

As aside from those three orders, in which it would go without saying apparently, the other ones obviously have a more open stance, and hence, the responses will be predictable.

Also, again Mace had an attachment, sure, and still condemned Anakin for his, and so it seems the hypocrisy of the fiction has not been adapted, but adopted.

Is it any wonder why people constantly create there own orders ad nauseam?

I also know plenty in the emergency services that are available when they need to be, even though they may drink or do drugs.

Even those in emergency services have time off to themselves Alethea.

a jedi shouldnt use drugs to connect with the force ....but take me for example i smoke pot ....not because i need to but because i enjoy it ...it dosent grant me any force boon but it allows me to examine my own thoughts from an angle id otherwise overlook ....and depending on the drug i addvocate its use ......talkin bout pot here not crack just to clear it up

Why? Why not? Is there ever a reason to say something beyond "Because people might like the prospective, it might help them better form their own opinions having a different type of argument".

As for your emergency services that do drugs and are available to help others. Responsible drinking is fine, it doesn't mean that they are ALWAYS available. If they are over the .08 limit (in most areas, some have a lower rate), they legally cannot do anything. You might let them, that doesn't make you or them right, or responsible in allowing it. And if they are illegally taking drugs (or abusing them for that matter), they don't need to be on a team that responds to emergencies. That's my stance, you're not changing it- and what you have just told me is that while you are a great nurse, you should never be put in a position of hiring other nurses.

Why? Why not? Is there ever a reason to say something beyond "Because people might like the prospective, it might help them better form their own opinions having a different type of argument".

This is not a new argument, or prospective, either from you, or the community. As was put forth in the Rant thread, there is one a week. I know every ones stance, including my own. Plenty of reasons for why not there.

As for your emergency services that do drugs and are available to help others. Responsible drinking is fine, it doesn't mean that they are ALWAYS available. If they are over the .08 limit (in most areas, some have a lower rate), they legally cannot do anything. You might let them, that doesn't make you or them right, or responsible in allowing it. And if they are illegally taking drugs (or abusing them for that matter), they don't need to be on a team that responds to emergencies. That's my stance, you're not changing it- and what you have just told me is that while you are a great nurse, you should never be put in a position of hiring other nurses.

No one is ALWAYS available to help others. As a mother, you wont always be able to.

As for what people do in there off time, well, whether or not they should be on a team that responds to emergencies, they have saved lives, and one day, since your all about the what ifs it could be yours.

If they saved your life, or your childs, would you reall care if in there off time they like to smoke weed?

I said they drink, and or, do drugs, I didnt say they did so on the job.

Also, Jedi, as a percentage, I wonder how many have the competence to help others as first responders, and of that, how many are ALWAYS available.

Jedi is not a job, lol, and its requirements and protocols are not half, or half of half as stringent as those that do work in emergency services, because regardless of your personal opinion, you still have to do what they say as opposed to what you think.

Because there training goes across the boards, do to a scientific method and other statistical outcomes that point to the majority favor.

Your priorities are poor at best Ally, and factor in the real world or the people in it not at all.

and what you have just told me is that while you are a great nurse, you should never be put in a position of hiring other nurses.

Lol, you act as if I havent been.

Based on what?

Nurses get drug tested, so if they are hired, at the time of there hiring, they are clean.

Not just a urine test either, but blood, and done right in the lab.

Of course, not all drugs are like marijuana, which stays in your system quite a bit longer.

Most of my information is after the fact, and there performance, as a nurse, on the job, well, while some nurses have been caught with drug problems( not localized to me in time of hiring, or my hospital, but all over the world) they are fired, and they can no longer practice, though our hospital gives the chance of a rehab, rehire, one more chance type of thing.

Drug problems meaning they HAVE interfered with work. For those that dont bring it to work, if I do know, I let it go, because there still saving more lives than the majority of Jedi, thats for sure. Nor is there performance compromised, as they are sober in that time.

So please, get off your high horse, and given who I have seen that has been knighed within the Jedi community, whether you were in the position or not, how about taking care of your own neck of the woods before trying to act like you know what your talking about in regards to mine.