Jedi and Drugs

DISCLAIMER: This discussion is in regards to illegal use of drugs and drug abuse. It is not meant to take anything away from the doctors that are legally sanctioned to prescribe medicine approved by the FDA (or similar organization of your country).

Every couple of months the question gets asked somewhere in the Jedi Community “What is the Jedi’s take on drugs?”. Some orders take a firm stance against illegal drugs and drug abuse, while others do not make a specific affirmation and let the congregation talk over it. Those of you that know me, probably know that I am rather proud to say that I spent a year as a Drug Abuse Resistance Education (D.A.R.E.) officer teaching 5th graders about drugs and how they affect your life- all in the hopes that they will heed my words and say “no” every time. So it should be a no-brainer what my stance is on whether or not a Jedi should get involved with illegal substances or drug abuse. What you might not know, is why.
Throughout history drugs have been demonized or exalted by people on various ends of the spectrum. Arguments about why certain drugs that are said to “not be all that harmful” were made illegal in the first place have been spun to demonstrate why we shouldn’t let “the man” get us down. Those that support drugs to enhance the spiritual experience will tell you that in moderation and with the proper supervision you should be fine. Although I can see all sides of the spectrum in these discussions, my argument has nothing to do with the mainstream debate. I will not condemn a shaman that uses drugs, I simply do not agree with them. I will not condemn someone that does drugs, but I would not hire them until they were completely clean and proved they would not make a relapse. I would be there to help them overcome their addiction if I had the time to become their friend. I would not allow them to do drugs in front of me. I would not turn them in to the authorities unless they did something reckless while under the influence.
Recklessness is at the heart of my argument against drugs. Between the fiction and our real life Jedi, we all seem to agree that a Jedi should work on overcoming recklessness. Drugs are reckless, and you’ll understand better why I say this as this piece goes on, first let’s define what each of the types of drugs are and what effect they have on you. Most of these will probably know, some you may have experienced directly, or watched others go through.

Narcotics: A narcotic is any substance that takes the edge off of your senses, and can causes someone to become drowsy in higher dosages, there is even the possibility you will slip into a coma. In the medical community doctors try to limit how often you take narcotics because of the damage if could cause someone.
The first time that I watched what a narcotic did to people was awful. His name was Marques Long, and he was a fellow classmate. Not even a year after we graduated High School, I found myself attending his funeral to support a number of friends. The story was pretty terrible, a friend of his had played a prank on him and his girlfriend telling them that her father had called the police to go after them for kidnapping. The problem was that the possibility was quite plausible based on his knowledge of the girlfriend’s family. So in all of her brilliance, she talked him into carrying on in a Romeo & Juliet story, with the poison of Heroin. Juliet lived past the event and frantically reached out to the police to try and save Marques- but it was too late. The first time he took Heroin, a drug he said he would never take, was his last.

Hallucinogens: These are drugs that alter perception, for some it might come in the form of seeing things that are not there, messing with your emotions, you might not be able to comprehend space and time. Hallucinogens are not used by mainstream medicine, but is under review by some for treating people on a 12 step program, and other possible methods of treating emotionally based medical diagnosis (such as bipolar or obsessive compulsive disorder).
The night Marques died, I had friends calling me frantically while I was working a Steak ’n’ Shake drive thru. It was difficult, but I managed to sneak the calls long enough to discover they would all be at the local Waffle House when I got off work that night. I got there and it was a bit of a nightmare, everyone was taking hits off of a blunt, there were probably two of us total that were not trying to get high. We moved in on the group that had gathered and proceeded to talk with each of them, helping them work through their issues, and even talked with each other, because Erin had been close to Marques too. Although they each shared in their experiences to grieve over some weed, it wasn’t the same as voicing their frustrations with Marques and his girlfriend. We stayed there all night, and worked on getting each of them home without incident, by calling cabs, driving them home ourselves, working with the Waffle House staff to ensure that no one did anything stupid. The staff, having become friends with Marques, were more than happy to help out.
Marijuana might be popular, but it is not the only run in with a hallucinogen I have had. The other was in Iraq. Just imagine for a moment that you have someone who always has your back, they are your gunner, your driver, or simply just another member of your team, then you go up to the door of their housing unit and realize there’s a problem. No one is coming to the door, but you are confident the two people you saw go into the room about an hour ago have not left the unit. Suspecting something horrible has happened, you call the medics and the on base housing office, periodically you knock on the door to try and see if someone will answer. When the door is finally opened, to your horror there are air cans spread across the floor, and two bodies, one looks slightly responsive, the other…Quickly the medics rush in and assess the situation, they take the one that was responsive out and get him to medical, while you and the other people on the scene have to carry the body out.
I got there while they pulled the two out, adding to the chaos at that moment would not have been a good thing, so I continued to move on and let the first responders handle it, while tugging my friends away. This battle buddy that I had barely knew apparently had been inhaling canned air for awhile now, to take the edge off of what he was experiencing every time he left the wire. It was the only thing they could do that made them feel alive again. And it took it’s toll on everyone. Later that night, the unit called everyone for an emergency meeting. The command wanted answers, we were all given a blanket counseling statement that made it clear we were not to engage in illegal drug usage, and that they wanted people who knew what was going on to come forward. Being one of the few Military Police there, we were asked to officiate everyone’s statement instead of having their direct line leaders do so. As I got around, people expressed how hard it was to lose someone, they were not only losing morale, but some wondered if someone else was quietly doing the same thing- would they lose another battle buddy that is suppose to have their back? The more people that were lost, the more dangerous it would get for them to go out on patrol in the combat zone. The unit got through the incident, but it should not have happened. And no service member (military, cop, emergency services) putting their lives on the line or having the lives of others in their hands should have to fear that the person next to them might not be at their best due to drug usage.

Stimulants: Stimulants can be helpful in medicine, as they increase alertness either mentally or physically. In the medical community the can be used to treat AD(H)D, narcolepsy, obesity and a number of other good uses. But they can cause a lot of problems when they are not properly administered or they are abused in general.
In the community we have a member that overcame his meth addiction, and has even helped others overcome their addiction to the substance. He bore physical scars from using meth, but the final straw was dying in an ER. He realized that he never wanted to go through that again, and made the decision to overcome the addiction.

Depressants: Being ready brings me to my own experience with a drug. Depressants are the substances that bring your body functions down while you are using them. They take a toll on your ability to react, and to think straight, they can play with your emotions, whether they are good or not.
The drug I took isn’t illegal. And in fact, I didn’t purposely abuse it. I just didn’t have a tolerance for it. In my life I had made the effort to never do illegal drugs, I waited until I turned 21 to drink, I have never smoked, nothing of those natures. Shortly after I turned 21 I had a grand total of maybe 6 drinks over the course of a couple of months. While in Iraq, I didn’t drink a drop, got back home and found myself a month or two later in a break up, so I went out and had two drinks not realizing just how low my tolerance was. By that time I was slurring my speech, so I cut myself off. My friend took me out to a beach where we talked, and suddenly in all of my stupor, I got a call. The person I had on the phone was in a bind, he had gone to a party, was underage and suddenly realized that he needed to work through some things, as well as try and figure out how he was going to get home because he didn’t want his father to find out. My friend needed me right at that moment, and I was drunk. I managed, it took everything out of me, but I managed to communicate with him. I concentrated hard to understand his words, and made more effort than I should have needed to enunciate my words so that he could understand what I was saying.
All of the experiences I had prior to this event started becoming more real to me. Before that night, I didn’t do drugs because it was illegal, and I didn’t want to get caught, and I didn’t like the idea of having health problems. But on a night in 2008, the reason changed to a Jedi reason, rather than a selfish reason: Because I’m no good to anyone if I’m not on my best game. To allow myself to be in a condition where I cannot take charge if I see someone hurt, or cannot speak when someone needs counsel or when I’m witnessing a crime is reckless. It is also reckless of me to elevate someone to the status of knight that is irresponsible with controlled substances.

You never know when you’re going to be needed. I didn’t think that one random night, in a very rare incident, that someone would need me, but it happened, and the situation could strike any other time. Since that night, I’ve found myself in situations where I could have enjoyed drinking, but as it would turn out it was the best decision for me to stay sober. Think about that next time you want to ask the question: Is it okay for a Jedi to do drugs? What possible ramifications might occur?

If one enjoys something they should do it, sure one should be around to help people too, but helping people includes helping oneself, they are one of those people after all.

Self-sacrifice is a noble service, but self-sacrifice has to go two ways. One should be there for others, but one should also be there for themselves, likewise others can't always be there for oneself and oneself can't always be there for others.

Like I said in the other thread, "I'm not a slave to hypotheticals".

You can do a number of things that make you happy, and none of them have to impair your ability to make sound judgement. It's not a self-sacrifice if you're just ensuring that you are available. While you're available, you can hang out a coffee shop, go to an amusement park, go for a run, meditate, have sex, there are other options. I would say that by using "drugs makes me happy" as an excuse, it makes you a slave to the drug itself.

if youre not happy without the drugs then youre not happy

intoxicants dont really make people happy so much as offer a sense of relief from unhappiness, which is not the same thing

i do support the use of psychotropics in religious rituals, but that is not the same thing as recreational drug use much less the same as drug addiction

i belive in personal freedom and i support the legal right to do pretty much whatever you want in your own house (house also meaning body) with the condition of not posing an immediate danger to others

legally i am very much against the "drug war" and i am totally against the idea of putting people with dependancy issues behind bars for those issues

as for the topic of what is healthy for a person and especially what is appropriate for a jedi, my position is that a jedi ought to develop a psychological foundation which is not dependant on external substances

actually, my position is that a jedi MUST develop this

i see addiction as an impediment which should be outgrown and left behind

i dont judge or look down on anyone for not having reached the point where they can leave their dependance behind them

but i do insist that they have to keep working at it, to the degree they/we are able

i really dont want to argue about it any more

my opinion is not gonna change and i dont demand anyone else change theirs,though i will take a moment to promote my own view where i feel it is appropriate to do so

Alethea Thompson wrote: Those of you that know me, probably know that I am rather proud to say that I spent a year as a Drug Abuse Resistance Education (D.A.R.E.) officer teaching 5th graders about drugs and how they affect your life- all in the hopes that they will heed my words and say “no” every time.

I don't mean this disrespectfully, Alethea, so please don't interpret what I have to say in that manner. I understand and appreciate your perspective from a certain angle.

In my personal experience, it was the constant barrage of D.A.R.E. presentations in school and the lack of honesty in those presentations that led me toward recreational drug use. "Just say no," the definitive slogan against all drug use during my youth, rang somehow false and misleading and ultimately made me wonder why many people approached the topic of drugs so aggressively.

I'm sincerely sorry that you and others close to you have had bad, and in some cases fatal, experiences with drugs.

Fortunately, that has not been true for me or others in my life. Drugs can be used responsibly and bring about notable benefits, even for a Jedi. I certainly wouldn't be the person I am today without the many past experiences I've had with drugs (particularly, empathogens and psychedelics), and while I would never suggest to anyone else that they use drugs, I feel it would be just as irresponsible to pretend that drugs didn't help me become a better person.

I have best friends who do drugs recreationally. It's funny... they dropped out of college and started an apothecary. But, I have never seen them happier OR more exhausted. So, even though they decided to take up doing drugs, they've moved their life in the right direction. And, this connection to the Earth... from marijuana to shrooms (they do natural stuff pretty exclusively save some acid every now and again)... it led them to have a respect for herbology. Now, they're doing farmers' markets and selling their legal stuff online.

Personally, I'm glad they found drugs. They may have found their bliss another way... but, this way worked too.

I do not do drugs. Really, I don't even do caffeine anymore. I have an ENORMOUSLY addictive personality. My drugs are netflix and sugar. If I did an addicting and overdose easy drug even once, I know I'd end up dead from overdosage in a week or two.

It's important to know your limits. It's important to be alert and do drugs safely. It's important not to get addicted.

But, if it's your bliss and it supports you in your passions, then I say go for it. If it is for recreation and it doesn't consume your life, then go for it.

I do not understand this prohibition mindset that we need to be controlling what people do in regards to substance abuse. People will do drugs whether or not it is illegal. All we're doing is creating income for prisons, locking up innocent people to fill the prisons, tearing families apart, stealing from perfectly legal businesses (you can ask me about this but I don't want to type it all out tonight), and just really bad governing...

Why is it that we can't do something like this: http://sciencenordic.com/heroin-clinics-improve-addicts-lives

At these clinics, they help people through addictions, which I believe to be the most dangerous part of drug use. Making it legal reduces use.

The US of A got it wrong. Simple as that.

It's an interesting topic I guess. I did not identify as a Jedi when I experimented with them, but I adhered to the same values and ideals as I do as a Jedi. My actions then were deliberate, as I'd already hit a wall with 'perception' - it was not social, though one can lead to the other quite easily. As every young adult, I guess I was in a rush for 'growth' and empowerment.... ignorant of the important of the ebb and flow of the cyclical nature of this incarnation and how different progress is achieved towards growth from that system, to the linear one experienced as a youth.

Looking back (way back) to those times, 'use' did tend to decrease my capacity to live up to those values and ideals but because they were not so rigidly associated to my self identity I guess I was prepared to let those boundaries blur and transform depending on whatever I discovered (learnt or suffered). In effect creating weakness to discover a more accurate sense of the hidden self. Surely there is a better way then making oneself weak, its an adjustment of the subjective self to satisfy something inside that needs to feel in control!!!! Hard to see back then........ and for some it might seem the only way, or worse suffer peer pressure and do something they'd rather not.

So [strike]I don't think [/strike] I'd like to think we don't need drugs to modify perception within the realm of usefulness, the teachings here at the Temple for example might be a good example of where dedication and commitment to actually learning a capacity to empathize with ones weakness rather then digging a hole to make it easier to notice the sky.
:S

Arcade, I don't take offense to it. I'm proud of my time as D.A.R.E. Officer, I didn't just go with the "say no" slogan, I often went in each class with an example of people that made bad decisions and it resulted in poor displays. More of a "That Guy" image, and then explained the effects based on the course I was suppose to teach that day.

My students knew their two instructors as being a Ninja and a Jedi. When they asked how they could be as cool as us, we used that to our advantage. Ninja can't be stealthy if they are high on drugs, Jedi can't do any good if they are on drugs, etc. We were fun, drab was... well drab, and I hate drab.

A lot of the kids in that class probably didn't listen to me. But I know the ones that did, and I am confident it will take a very significant event for them to turn to drugs. The others, I can only hope I left a lasting impression on them.

It seems to me some of you are trying to justify recreational dug use as something a Jedi would do, and there is no such case.

Intoxicants are against very much everything a Jedi represents. They deceive your senses and disallow mindfulness, which is the basis for Jedi behavior.

Want to do drugs? Sure, you're free to do it, as long as it's a legal drug where you live. But don't fool yourself, this is not the Jedi Way.

joseaplaza wrote: It seems to me some of you are trying to justify recreational dug use as something a Jedi would do, and there is no such case.

Intoxicants are against very much everything a Jedi represents. They deceive your senses and disallow mindfulness, which is the basis for Jedi behavior.

Want to do drugs? Sure, you're free to do it, as long as it's a legal drug where you live. But don't fool yourself, this is not the Jedi Way.

I disagree with your statements, and "the Jedi Way" is a phrase that's open to interpretation.

Walking the Jedi path is a personal endeavor/responsibility, and though most of us generally agree on what is appropriate Jedi behavior, there will always be instances like this where issues are seen through different lenses.