The Problem with Black Lives Matter

6 years 8 months ago #291889 by FTPC
like I said
it is the choices that you make in life
Hell I grow up with black people nearly all my life with grade school and middle and high school
and some Black people I know Have bills to pay have a job and family and live peaceful lives
and then you got another group of that want to live off of the government section 8 and who turn out to drug addicts

and dude it is the same with white folks too. there are white people that Have bills, a job and family and the n you got the red necks with five cars in a yard ve off of the government section 8 and who turn out to drug addicts

so, dude, I have seen it all

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6 years 8 months ago #291926 by ZealotX

FTPC wrote: like I said
it is the choices that you make in life
Hell I grow up with black people nearly all my life with grade school and middle and high school
and some Black people I know Have bills to pay have a job and family and live peaceful lives
and then you got another group of that want to live off of the government section 8 and who turn out to drug addicts

and dude it is the same with white folks too. there are white people that Have bills, a job and family and the n you got the red necks with five cars in a yard ve off of the government section 8 and who turn out to drug addicts

so, dude, I have seen it all

Believe it or not, I have also grown up with black people. MOST black people I know have bills to pay. MOST have a job and a family. I personally have 7 kids (2 biological, 1 step, and my fiance has 2 sets of twins). Most of these dudes are not providing financial support. But it wouldn't be cool to use my personal experience to say "black men don't take care of their responsibilities". That's a sweeping generalization that simply isn't true.

A lot of "people" are living off the system. A lot of "people" are on drugs. Of course it's the same with white folk too. It's the media that often gives off the impression that it's only black people and other minorities so that whites who are ignorant will be against them, assume they are immoral, assume that they're thugs, and its the RACIAL BIASES of people that not only imagine that blacks are inferior, but that also cause decisions to be made against black people based on these racial biases. And that's when truly through no fault of your own, you can be set up for failure because of the color of your skin. You say its all about the choices you make in life. I disagree. The choices you make are a PART of what happens to you. But it is the choices that OTHER PEOPLE make that also impact your life. You can only control so much. Each person's power is limited. When a cop pulls me over I have to submit to his authority because in that span of time what happens to be is going to be based on his decisions. My decision is honestly to survive the encounter. We each play a part in each other's decisions. As a programmer I'm well aware of how one decision can influence another.

But let's say a woman looks sexy as hell with curves upon curves, long hair, makeup, jewelry, and clothes that fit tightly against her skin. She looks good but is she asking to get raped? Of course not. And if someone rapes her he is literally taking away her decision and she is the victim of his decision. Natives didn't end up on the Trail of Tears because of their own decisions. It was because they were the victims of people who wanted to own the land that they were willing to share.

The same way that a surfer doesn't wake up like "hey, I think I'd like to be shark food today".... still he chooses to surf and there 'could' be a shark nearby, No black person wakes up like "hey, I think I'd like to be shot by a cop or a misguided neighborhood watchdog today. Let me go put on a hoodie"... still we choose to live in a place where these things can happen. And there is a word for it when someone treats you a certain way because of the color of your skin. That word is racism and the word exists, not because the victims somehow choose to be treated this way, but because racists choose to treat people this way. And why? Same reason that slaves weren't given the choice to work. Because some IMMORAL person believes they have the right to abuse others. However, they want to justify it, that is a choice and decision they make because they believe they have the POWER to make it. It's all about corruption.

Furthermore, whites have had significantly more time to get out of bad neighborhoods, to conquer chemical dependence, and more resources to assist in doing so. As a race, whites did not start out on the bottom of society. They didn't start the game in last place. Black people are expected to prevent crime in their own communities, escape poverty unassisted and without resources, start with nothing and overcome all obstacles even when the gatekeeper is locking the door based on skin color. Black people are resilient but the problem is that everyone can't go to the NBA or the NFL. Black athletes overcome huge odds to get those spots. And society encourages those spots for us because that's what they believe we can do. When I was growing up my friends looked to footballs or basketballs as their future. I chose computers and I guess you can say that my choice made the difference. But at the same time we grew up in an environment where not every black family could afford a computer and not everyone could really see science and engineering as a possibility. You're talking about people who have been so marginalized that what we can do is thought to be very limited. The bias of society is drilled into us from an early age. Our teachers drill it into us. Do you think they tell us that we're going to be a great writer one day?

I believe black people can do anything but we are still trying to prove that fact to ourselves. And in reality, there are some neighborhoods where life is so tough that everything around you is pulling you into the same vortex of survival that everyone knows works even though, it too, only works for a handful of people. But the lack of opportunities is so devastating that even though drug dealers often only make minimum wage they see it as the only way. And they were born into that family, in that house, in that hood, that color, where the father is gone and they have 3-4 mouths they have to help feed and too young to be legally employed. No one chooses that. I have to make different choices so that my kids can have better opportunities and so they can make different choices and so they'll even believe me when I tell them they can make different choices. Everyone doesn't have that privilege. Everyone can't be as smart, as strong, as fast, as whatever, as those of us who really make it. This system wasn't designed for us to succeed and only the ones who understand that truly do succeed.

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6 years 7 months ago - 6 years 7 months ago #299541 by OB1Shinobi
I had intended to post in this topic quite a while back. I actually did a lot of research and had much of what i wanted to say written out, but my life got busy and busier and the discussion moved on. My initial basic positions still pretty much stand:

OB1Shinobi wrote: BLM is nested within an overall SJW culture that makes a virtue of being a victim, refuses personal responsibility, eschews critical thinking and rational dialogue, and ignores key facts and details of every issue they go on about. That is the SJW culture, generally speaking [which BLM is an extension of]

As for BLM specifically, they misrepresent the issue of police brutality,(which is incredibly complicated and affects all citizens) they endorse violence (even though they claim otherwise), engaging in and defending rioting and civil anarchy, and allow members to promote blatantly racist and socially divisive ideology [in other words, it is a fundamentally racist movement]. They treat all shootings of black people by police the same regardless of the circumstances....and though their very name suggests that protecting the lives of black people is their primary aim, they actually ignore the [the most relevant] issues that cause the vast majority of black deaths [and suffering]

Overall my problem with them is that they are making race relations in America worse and not better. I do understand many black people dont see anyone else they believe is speaking for them. Its a conundrum i guess.

I have something to add this to the list of BLM stupidities:

"White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader

1. White people, if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty.

2. White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way.

3. If you are a developer or realty owner of multi-family housing, build a sustainable complex in a black or brown blighted neighborhood and let black and brown people live in it for free.

4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

5. White people, if any of the people you intend to leave your property to are racists assholes, change the will, and will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

6. White people, re-budget your monthly so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing.

7. White people, especially white women (because this is yaw specialty — Nosey Jenny and Meddling Kathy), get a racist fired. Yaw know what the fuck they be saying. You are complicit when you ignore them. Get your boss fired cause they racist too.

8. Backing up No. 7, this should be easy but all those sheetless Klan, Nazi’s and Other lil’ dick-white men will all be returning to work. Get they ass fired. Call the police even: they look suspicious.

9. OK, backing up No. 8, if any white person at your work, or as you enter in spaces and you overhear a white person praising the actions from yesterday, first, get a pic. Get their name and more info. Hell, find out where they work — Get Them Fired. But certainly address them, and, if you need to, you got hands: use them.

10. Commit to two things: Fighting white supremacy where and how you can (this doesn’t mean taking up knitting, unless you’re making scarves for black and brown kids in need), and funding black and brown people and their work."

This is kind of talk is stupid, entitled, racist, and basically it just makes things worse. We either try to end racism altogether or we pick our prefered racist movements and push them forward. I want to end racism altogether and THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO DO IT. And yes, black people can definitely be racist too, denying that is also an effort at promoting racism. Here is a black woman using her power to insult the group she resents and to instigate further racial hostilities.

Its not an action, its a reaction? Well, my reaction to her reaction is "f**k you lady" lol are you going to tell me that black peoples lousy reactions are ok but my lousy reaction isnt? Guess what kind of reaction that will get lol.
At some point dont we all have to stop REacting, and start taking responsibility for how we choose to ACT?

People are complicated.
Last edit: 6 years 7 months ago by OB1Shinobi.

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6 years 7 months ago - 6 years 7 months ago #299573 by OB1Shinobi
1) Barack Obama, Colin Powell, Kanye West, Jesse Jackson, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson all have far more institutional power than i do. Could they be racist towards me? Yes.
The dean at a community college can be racist, and for that matter, so can the the professors. So can bus drivers, restaurant managers, and income tax attorneys. Virtually everyone has got some institutional power, even if only a small amount. You can use the institutional power of a job at burger king to get a coworker fired of prevent someone from being hired or even to just spit in someones food if you want. The money that you make at that job (or any other) is one of the most powerful forma of institutional power in any modern society, which can be used for any number of purposes, such as the employment of a lawyer, the opening of a new company, or the creation of a political lobby. Fun question: who has more institutional power, the KKK or the NAACP? (Im not equating them morally)

2) No one of any race gets to run from the police, no matter how scared they are. Its not allowed to run from the cops, its never going to be allowed, and there are obvious, good reasons for that.

3) Unconscious bias is a great a way for people to accuse each other of racism when there isnt any racism. Difficult as it may be to prove sometimes, actual evidence is the standard of proof for everything, including racism. The harvard test has been proven to be unreliable, and the training that has come of it has been shown to make biases WORSE. If youre looking for racism youll see it everywhere, postulating about what might hypothetically be going on in someones unconscious mind is about as useful and reliable at uncovering the truth as drawing straws or playing spin the bottle.

People are complicated.
Last edit: 6 years 7 months ago by OB1Shinobi.

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6 years 7 months ago #299998 by ZealotX
Thanks for your contribution to this discussion. Obviously, the subject is still very much a current event thanks to white supremacy groups and counterprotesters.

I'm not saying anyone does, but please don't ever feel like your opinions matter any less. I value your opinion and your perspective.

I guess my main issue is with the identification of BLM. What is BLM? Who is BLM? Everyone seems to know or assume they know. And because it is natural to judge and to make assumptions, it seems natural that people would exclude themselves from it and therefore more easily see wrongs.

Let me explain what I mean.

I'm black so I'm obviously not a member of any white supremacy group. Are there good white supremists? As much as most members of society want to say no, if we're being honest the answer is not that simple. There is gradation involved. While there is a general ideology of shared hatred, this is learned over time. Many people simply want to belong and feel like there are all these groups in society that they don't or can't fit into. Maybe they even feel threatened by this; as if everyone hates them for much the same reason that people generally don't like the government. Power. And the misuse of power. White men have a greater tendency to be identified with the main sort of conglomeration of power. People fear the police as extentions of that same power. "The Man". And the reason all these other minority groups team up is because of the threat this power poses. By the sheer number of whites the government represents their interests by default. While that's good on one hand, it simultaneously forces everyone else to work together in order to get their needs met (too). So yes, democracy is super great when you're part of the majority. It sucks when you're not.

That's why Black Lives Matter (too).

And because there are a large number of whites who aren't trying to team up because they are voting based on issues concerning, not just thesmelves, but the greater good, this creates a division in the numbers that other whites, who do play identity politics, and who do feel entitled to virtually every benefit of being the majority by virtue of their skin color, feel threatened by. So then they feel the need to team up against the other teams.

Everyone who feels this need; who feels threatened, isn't evil. It's simply easy for those who are "not them" to classify them as such. Of course there are differences. These people already have more influence on the levers of power than anyone else so why should they feel so intimidated by minorities? It's really not "their" country. The people who colonized this country and fought for this country and died for this country didn't do it on behalf of "white" people. They did it on behalf of the people who immigrated here, wanting to be free. So while there is a fundamental misunderstanding about who this country should belong to many KKK members are not truly hateful people. They are part of a club that supports them in their daily struggles.

It's very easy to paint an entire organization with a single brush. And you could say well 90% of them are bad so the other 10% should just get out if they're not bad too. That would be a valid argument and yet... these are their friends and family.

As far as BLM goes it would be silly to suggest that 100% of people who support BLM are model citizens. The media often tries to point out a person's faults as if these faults invalidate their perspective. You're white but you have a perspective on BLM. Should we listen to you or not? That's a political question. You don't have to be black to empathize with what BLM is fighting for. You didn't have to be black to empathize with Martin Luther King or Malcolm X. BLM isn't even 5% bad. So why is the other 99% judged as if it is a terrorist cell? The counter protesters that were ready to fight... those weren't even BLM. That was a different, non-exclusive, group against fascism. They never believed in pure non-violence so you saw how prepared they were. BLM wasn't because they're not a violent movement. The difference should be clear. The fascists and the anti-fascists were wearing protective gear and brandishing weapons.

Malcolm X was FAR more radical than any BLM member. What made the original black panthers radical to this day wasn't any sort of hatred they possessed but rather the lengths they were willing to go to protect their community against the police who were, even way back then, murdering people in the street. Imagine if you lived in Japan and the Japanese kept messing with you? Imagine if random Japanese citizens occassionally saw you walking down the street, stole whatever you were carrying, beat you up, and walked away like nothing happened. Other Japanese people see it but look the other way. Malcolm X had a lot of white people who wanted to join his movement. He said no. Many black groups model themselves after MLK or Malcolm X for the same reasons they had. Perhaps you don't understand those reasons but does that automatically make them racist?

Spellman: Will you work with the so-called “established” civil rights organizations?

Malcolm X: Well, we will work with them in any area and on any objective that doesn’t conflict with our own political, economic, and social philosophy which is black nationalism.

Malcolm X: .... I just don’t go along with—there can be no worker solidarity until there’s first some black solidarity. There can be no white/black solidarity until there’s first some black solidarity. We have got to get our problems solved first and then if there’s anything left to work on the white man’s problems, good, but I think one of the mistakes Negroes make is this worker solidarity thing.

Allow me to translate. Malcolm X was saying that black people have to come together to solve their own problems. He was not a racist. When you start fighting for everyone's issues it dilutes the agenda and then what you started the whole thing to do gets taken over until your interests become secondary. The NAACP has been criticized a lot for this very thing. Why does BLM even exist if we have the NAACP? It is because the NAACP lost a lot of focus through the desire to be more inclusive. To be perfectly honest, black people lost a lot because of the desire for inclusion. Everyone remembers Jackie Robinson, but forgets the entire Negro League that went away so that one man could integrate. The same thing happened with the black economy. We used to be in a better position to take care of our own needs because we supported each other's businesses and our economy grew. Now, most of us cannot get a successful business off the ground and most money is simply absorbed by massive mostly-white corporations. This means that most jobs and opportunities have to come from non-blacks which makes us more dependent. Our youth, sense this dependency and know that their survival depends on it. So if they don't believe they can get a good job or they can't make money fast enough to fee their families many turn to crime. It's not because they're black. It's because of a lack of opportunities where no priority is given to black people so many cannot survive in that scenario. So the funny thing is when a black organization is criticized for not integrating people completely forget how much we've already sacrificed in order to integrate.

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6 years 7 months ago #299999 by ZealotX
One of the main criticism I hear about BLM is the violence in Chicago. Again, this is a political attack because the idea is that what you say doesn't matter as much because of who you have in your party. Oh there are a bunch of people in your party who hate cops to the point of chanting "fry em like bacon"? People want to immediately apply these words to thousands of BLM supporters who weren't there; as well as to the founders of BLM as if every expression of anger is scripted by them in advance.

To this day there is no "White Lives Matter Movement" or "All Lives Matter" movement. There is NO universal movement against the police and their tactics. NONE. There is only BLM an their counter protesters who are protesting BLM. Why? Is it because BLM hates white people? No. Imagine if you were an American soldier fighting for freedom against the British and Japanese people came and protested you because, in THAT fight, you weren't fighting for their country. The idea that everyone has to fight for everyone at every time is a fallacy. When the Allies fought the Nazis and gave the Jews their own state what did they simultaneously do for Muslims? Where were all these counter protesting white people talking about "All lives matter" before when so many unarmed black people were getting murdered? Which one of them were out there raising national awareness?

There are whites who do get shot by the police. However, in 2010 black people were less than 10% of the population. This means that there are so many white people that when a (RELATIVELY) small number of them get murdered unjustly by the police THEY (whites) do not complain as a group. This isn't black people's fault for not noticing or fighting for these people that most whites have never heard of. How many whites even knew there was an issue before BLM came along and they needed to look for reasons to bash it? A lot of people were condemning BLM because they didn't believe there was an issue at all and were showing support for the police!

Also, what you don't see because it isn't easily quantifiable, is the lengths that police sometimes go to disarm a white suspect without killing them. See... its' deeper than just people getting shot. We're talking about racially motivated unfair treatment. We're talking about two different standards. A lot of armed whites get talked down. Some whites were even allowed to "takeover" a government building with guns, daring the police to try and stop them. When black people see those stories our first impression is "man... if that was a black dude he'd be dead by now." I guarantee you that MILLIONS of black people think this. Not hundreds or even thousands. There should, statistically, be a lot less black people getting killed but because we are such a minority population the numbers basically tell us a story we already know. And that is that there is a racial aspect to law enforcement in which black and brown people are targeted by police. And no... our lives do not matter to (all of) them.

Do you really think that a white cop isn't trying to save white lives? Of course they are; whether they are racist or not. That's the default. They exist to serve that majority. The ONLY CASE in which a life doesn't matter to a cop is if that cop hates the race that person belongs to. There is no case in which a white cop shot a white person because he hated their race. ALL cops are taught to protect themselves and to basically shoot first if they feel their lives are in danger. Police are also less threatened by white suspects. Therefore, they're more likely to use non-lethal force. Black cops are an extreme minority in a white police force. Even if they were racists there is absolutely no support or sanction for any police action against white people. For minorities there is absolutely support and sanction for targeting minorities. We've heard this from cops themselves.

Everyone would like to believe that racism is dead or dying but that's not true. Most black people can tell you a story of racism because most of us experience racism multiple times in our lives. If people wanted to protest police shootings in general there was an opportunity to do that both before and after BLM came on the scene. Where was that protest? Where was that national spotlight? It didn't exist. The fact that even the name "Black Lives Matter" is so misunderstood to somehow be against whites shows the obscene level of racism black people are dealing with. No one thought it was necessary to add "too" at the end because no one assumed whites would put "only" at the beginning!
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6 years 7 months ago #300000 by ZealotX
BLM started protesting something more specific and something more heinous than police shootings. If a cop shoots a person who is from the majority one could more easily call that a mistake. Did that white cop intentionally shoot that other white person? Maybe? But it is more likely that they only shot them because they felt like they had to for their own safety or the safety of others. Who's going to protest them for that? Maybe a small group might protest one or two officers who have a violent history. But certainly they weren't targeting white people. Who on earth would actually think that white cops would go out there targeting white people???

This is different.

By introducing the racial component we are NOT simply talking about police shootings at it is really a smack to the face of black people to take something that is obviously and overtly racist to us and tell us it isn't racism at all and we're imagining things. That is so dismissive. It's like telling a woman that she didn't get raped because men and women are equal so how could a man rape a woman and why would a man target a woman to rape her? Really? There's no difference? Of course there is. And we need to start seeing a difference when it is an issue. Think insurance companies don't absolutely take advantage of sick people? Do you need to be sick before you find out?

When white supremists chanted blood and soil...
When a white supremists runs people over in his car...
When Dylan Roof gunned down a bunch of black people praying in a church...
There is no doubt that these actions are evil. They reflect the worst hatred and the worst human instinct.

Now imagine the driver of that car and Dylan Roof are partners on a police force, wearing badges paid by your tax dollars. Imagine that these guys are the ones policing your community. If you're white, you may never even notice because they're not pulling YOU over unless they have to. They're not beating YOU up... unless you give them no choice. But what do you think they would do with their authority when all they have to do is say they saw one of us about to pull a weapon and they feared for their lives? This is the fear we live with every day. These cops don't wear swastikas on their uniforms. They don't wear hoods or give the nazi salute. We don't know which one is a racist and which isn't. So guess what? We don't trust any of them by default. We've learned over many years that we can't. We want to. We want things to be different. But until they are different, every cop is potentially a neo-nazi. Every single cop is potentially the KKK. Because just like the Matrix... any one of them you see can be an agent of hate and oppression. And internet videos are proving now what we've always known. We're not making up what's happening to us. We never were. When thousands of black people are supporting BLM, many times more than what you'll ever see at a march or rally, you should take it seriously. They're not making it up. You can look for faults. You can say they shot a criminal... but the law affords ALL citizens due process, not summary execution. You can say, "oh it was just a mistake" but they make many more "mistakes" with us than with you. So these are not just police shootings that we're talking about.

These are racially motivated hate crimes as well as terrorism.

And it is when whites don't see or understand this to the extent that it is a reality for us, that's when we feel like we are fighting all alone against the entire society that is ready and willing to sit back and watch us die. It is a miracle that there isn't more violence against the police. It really is. What some members of BLM have done is NOTHING compared to what many are prepared to do, because while you think it's not that bad, that's not how we feel and many are not willing to sit in time out waiting for the next time when it might happen to someone they know, or maybe even themselves.

There was a young woman who got shot in front of her son. I would describe her has incredibly unhinged. Truly, she brought her death upon herself. She was so angry at the police that even a simply stop became a life or death struggle for her. She truly believed her very life was threatened the moment she saw those lights in her rear view mirror. Was her death justified? Absolutely. She probably would have shot as many as she could but that was because in her mind, they were all a threat to her and her son. Again, was she crazy? Yep. But that fear didn't come from nowhere. It was raised and nurtured by the history of violent interactions with police that she was aware of.

With all due respect, no white person in America wakes up like this; afraid of the police, thinking today might be the day they get shot walking home from school, or walking to the store, or driving a nice car. They assume you're guilty and they feel good when they catch you. All of them? Of course not. But enough to make it a bigger problem for us than for you. We don't exclude whites because we hate you. We exclude whites because you're not the victims of racially motivated criminal behavior of the part of local government. We can't control gang violence. Do we try? Of course we do. However, we should be able to control the police because we're paying them to follow the rules we all agree to. But some are playing by a different set of rules. And when they kill us? They usually get away with it, signalling to other racists that they're allowed to as long as they're wearing a badge.

And sometimes... even when they're not.
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6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #303945 by Lykeios Little Raven

Rosalyn J wrote: The contents of this video may be disturbing to some viewers

Warning: Spoiler!

Good evening ladies and gentlemen. It seems I need my own learning opportunity, so I would like to start a discussion about a topic affects people like me

Thank you for sharing this. Though the topic may not directly affect me (apart from the fact that I allow it to affect me to some degree) the topic matters to me.

I am not racist. I have black friends, I have had Asian friends, I have white friends, I have had Hispanic/Latino friends, I have had Middle Eastern friends, I have had Jewish friends, etc. etc. etc. I believe institutionalized racism is a major problem in the United States.

Just so we are clear,
I don't agree with the premise of this video

Just so I am clear: I do agree with the premise of this video. Which is saying something as I have generally supported the cause of movements like BLM and the anti-fascists.

I think the person who posted this video is being honest. I don't think he is being racist. If anyone thinks he is being racist...well, frankly, you are being oversensitive and might need to re-examine your personal definitions for "racist" and "racism."

All that being said, I do think the BLM movement COULD be a very good thing. However, I think ALM would be a better movement.

“Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.” -Zhuangzi

“Though, as the crusade presses on, I find myself altogether incapable of staying here in saftey while others shed their blood for such a noble and just cause. For surely must the Almighty be with us even in the sundering of our nation. Our fight is for freedom, for liberty, and for all the principles upon which that aforementioned nation was built.” - Patrick “Madman of Galway” O'Dell
Last edit: 6 years 5 months ago by Lykeios Little Raven.
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6 years 5 months ago #304070 by ZealotX
Whenever someone who is Caucasian says "I have black friends" it seems like I already know what's coming. They are about to side with a criticism against BLM or black people in general, but they want their criticism to sound different, ie. 'not racist', because they don't think it is. Why not? Because you have black friends?

What's funny is that the NFL protest is probably the most popular black protest in our history. You would think, because everyone loves Martin Luther King Jr. now that it was always so and that his protests were popular. No, white people en mass, did not like his protests. Black protesters were attacked. Black protesters were lynched. Black protesters were hung. Black protesters, including the now beloved MLK, were assassinated.

The reason institutional racism has survived to this day is because too many whites are able to turn the other way while it's happening and behave as though it doesn't exist and this is not a problem that we need to protest. Honestly, when the black community is in pain we are BY OURSELVES. Of course white people offer advice from the comfortable position of power, telling us what we should do to better survive under their authority, when it is the responsibility of the police to protect and serve EVERYONE. Understandably, this advice, which often involves bootstraps and hypocrisy, falls on deaf ears because it doesn't seem like they really care until they are being personally inconvenienced.

When you fall and hit your knee, local nerve cells send signals to your brain to tell "you" where the injury is so that "you" can do something about it. The more intense the pain, the more damage may be done. If black people are protesting, it's the same as local nerve cells sending pain signals to the country to let the country know where the problem is so that the nation can do something about it.

If the nation does little to nothing about it then how could it be said that 1. It's not really a problem or 2. the problem is both legs and the knee shouldn't send pain signals for itself but rather when something affect your knee and your elbow your knee shouldn't send pain signals to the brain unless it is coordinating with the elbow.

Does this make any sense to you?

But when it's black people, somehow it makes sense to people that black people shouldn't complain or shouldn't protest, or that black people are "doing it wrong". No one tells us how we should protest. It's always how we shouldn't.

When I have a problem, I don't need to gather all the other people that have the same problem and coordinate on how we're going to solve it together.

Whites are getting shot too. But question.... did white people create a group called "ALL LIVES MATTER"? Did white people organize against bad cops? Did white people, who have more power, and who are in a majority, and who are getting killed at an uncomfortable rate by the police, come to black people and say "hey, let's coordinate because this is affecting all of us?"

No. That didn't happen.

All lives matter did not exist. White lives matter did not exist. One might even question whether whites were being killed at an uncomfortable rate or if they were getting killed at a rate that was quite comfortable for them.

Suddenly, it was when BLACK PEOPLE had a problem.... magically... quite suddenly.... white had a problem, NOT WITH THE POLICE.... but with black people protesting.

Amazing, huh?

White people could have simply said, "YES, I agree. We need to do something about bad cops. And you know what? This is happening to us too so that gives us even more reason to do something about... BAD COPS. Let's call our representatives. Let's call our mayors. Let's put political pressure on this."

But no.

White people said, "We need to do something about black people protesting OUR cops."

And that's how "ALL LIVES MATTER" was even thought up in the first place. It was to ATTACK the entire concept of the BLM protest. It is an attack that denies that the problem even exists. Because if a white person doesn't get a job everything's fair. If a black person doesn't get a job everything must be fair if a white person didn't get it either. That's logical, but that's not reality. In REALITY a black person not getting called back for a job could be because they weren't qualified but it could ALSO be because they were black. And if they are a woman that's another possible strike if the interviewer has a gender bias. So just because you get pulled over for speeding doesn't mean that the police's motives never have anything to do with race. A lot of cops are A-holes by nature because it is a job that attracts those personality types. So yes, a cop could give you a hard time and even shoot you because they're A-holes who were probably picked on in middle school, but there are also A-holes who are racists. We do not have to ignore racism just because they're also A-holes in general.

Where people's intentions are tends to follow their expenditure of energy. The person who made the video invested the energy into voicing BLM criticisms in a time when doing so has been like the in thing to do and it was done by pundits and commentators constantly (because they hated BLM). These same people do not invest the same or greater amounts of energy into criticising the police or talking about who everyone should be calling in order to create political pressure on the police force to change. No... what people did was they changed the argument. They made it seem like they were defending cops like people defend the troops. It's a political dog whistle. Whenever they want you to stop doing something they just pretend you are somehow violating the flag, the national anthem, the troops (because they can take bullets but their feelings might get hurt). They always try to CHANGE what it is that black people are protesting in order to make the protest WRONG.

I ask you not to fall for it.

Black people do not need to coordinate our pain.
Black people do not need to protest in a way that you're comfortable with.
Black people do not need to ignore racism just because you don't want to think any of these cops are racist.
Black people do not need to ignore things like Stop and Frisk.
Black people do not need to ignore the fact that we've been racially profiled for many years.
Black people do not need to forget the fact that the KKK wore hoods because many of them were members of law enforcement
Black people do not need to have a politically correct protest when whites elected a politically incorrect president. That is the height of hypocrisy.
Black people do not need to wait on other people to get behind them when the same people are willing to ignore their message and attack them.
Black people do not need to ignore dog whistle racism, gerrymandering, the 'Southern Strategy' etc.
Black people do not need to pretend that racism suddenly ended the day Obama took the Oath of Office, especially when many whites were calling him and his wife racial slurs
Black people do not need to ignore the way the criminal justice system treats us unfairly or even ask if white officers are also planting drugs on white suspects.
Black people do not need to ignore how ridiculous it is to shoot a child at a park with a toy gun in a matter of seconds when they talk down grown men
Black people do not need to ignore the fact that if a cop is having a bad day we can follow every instruction and law and still end up dead
Black people do not need to ignore that most white cops who kill black people get away with it. Many are not even indicted.
Black people do not need to trust the police because we have years of experience proving that we cannot.

The truth is that every anti-BLM criticism seeks to put black people in check. They, in general, want to ignore the racism and would rather black people not protest at all. We can tell who's really supporting us and who's really for us by those who are willing to set their own race to the side and just be HUMAN enough to see that racism is something that we ALL need to stop. But racism isn't happening to ALL of us. It's happening mainly to black people.

And if you think I'm being too sensitive consider this...

Hispanic men are also racially profiled. Hispanics are also ridiculed with racial slurs. I remember when I found out what a "wet back" was. I was 18 or 19. So they also have a reason to complain about the cops being racists but what you don't see them complaining about is Black Lives Matter. You don't see them going crazy over a lack of inclusion to the point that everyone just ignores what we're actually protesting and the fact that people of all races can react to a protest by getting involved. A protest is a vehicle to raise awareness. But the change comes from the people who see it and who aren't willing to sit on the sidelines and debate the merits of the protest or mistakes emotional humans make in protesting or making videos about why they don't think they're racists. DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM! And then if you want to make an All Lives Matter organization that ALSO protests the police, then go right ahead because no one said whites couldn't do that. But it's All lives matter is not about protesting bad police officers. It's a counter protest, protesting black people.
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6 years 5 months ago #304083 by Adder
Not necessarily, some people just know accuracy is really important and when its weak or absent, it can raise red flags about intention. Racism for example focuses on using race to categorize for reasons other then race, and that process can easily become discrimination because such use has its scope (category) exceeding its accuracy (attribute eg race). An easy way to avoid being racist is to ensure the attributes are held by all members of whatever category is being labelled by that attribute. Saying all white people have power is an example, and also saying all black people don't, is another example IMO. What would be probably more correct versions of the first one for example would be either all people in power have more power, or more white people in the US have power then black people in the US. Clear messages are clear.

Such that anyone who relies on race to overly simplify a usually real aspect of the category can potentially be doing so deliberately, and so as misinformation when anything else supports the red flags about intention then their will be a wider range of push-back - no matter the intent of the original message. Because the intent is lost in the badly delivered message, because of the inaccuracy of it. Is BLM a good label for the intended meaning... IMO its a bit weak as it can be misinterpreted as others do not. And so ALM address that inconsistency - but at the cost of detail of the intended meaning. So neither are ideal, perhaps there is something else better!!??

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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