What would help the Temple Be A Better Place? Suggestions please...

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3 years 8 months ago #352851 by Gisteron
And there has been a subdivision of the boards precisely to clearer segregate the areas where one ought expect an exchange of different ideas.

That being said, I for one have difficulty appreciating what a pursuit of understanding is supposed to be, if it does not involve speaking and listening to people with different perspectives and positions from one's own. To me, someone who finds that there is too much difference between us, is, with all due respect, not someone whom I see as one who is looking to learn. We can coexist with those, in my opinion. There have, as you are reporting, been sentiments against how many threads end up with interesting or at least passionate discussions, as they are too "negative" in the opinions of some. Meanwhile I can't recall anyone ever saying that some of the more one-dimensional threads like the ones only linking music, or quotes, or poems, or workout progression, are in anyone's way. Ironically, the "negative" ... let's call it "side" for lack of a better word... seems to be the one more happy to coexist, whilst the quest for "positivity" is the one that presumably brought the recent re-structuring, and not even to the "positivity"-crowd's satisfaction, if this thread's revival post is anything to go by. :silly:

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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3 years 8 months ago #352854 by
Understanding is listening to different views. And why would we put people down? Why wouldn't we try and be truthful. Its part of the Jedi code. As far as I can see your just trying to argue with me Gisteron. Yes I'm calling you out. You have put forth no solutions. At least I did. What solutions you got.

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3 years 8 months ago #352855 by Gisteron

Glenn wrote: Understanding is listening to different views.

Well... Let's say that'd be a start, sure.


And why would we put people down?

I don't know. I have yet to witness someone putting anyone down here, though, so I'm not sure how important it is when it comes to a discussion about improving the Temple.


Why wouldn't we try and be truthful.

Again, no idea. I reckon most think that they are trying in their own way. In the end we don't get to see anyone's efforts at a glance, only the end results. And sometimes, comparing the results to how little or how much effort it took others among us to reach theirs one may end up questioning whether or not everyone is indeed trying. But at the end of the day I don't find it productive to pass a judgement on this one way or the other. Even the most zealous truth-seekers among us will fail some of the time, and some of the time it may well be for a lack of trying. But if they value truth and understanding, they'll happily stand corrected all the same. Ignorance, after all, is not just a matter of not knowing. Nobody knows everything. The only genuinely shameful sort of ignorance - in my opinion, at any rate - is the sort that leaves us without wondering, without a will to learn, or worse yet, with a will not to.


Its part of the Jedi code.

Much as I'd love to encourage truthfulness, it is not an explicit part of the Code, in my opinion. One can argue that any pursuit of knowledge and quest against ignorance is one that has to incorporate honesty with oneself and possibly others at one point or another. I am very sympathetic to that interpretation myself, but I would insist that nevertheless it is an interpretation I'd project onto the Code, not an intrinsic part of it.


As far as I can see your just trying to argue with me Gisteron. Yes I'm calling you out. You have put forth no solutions. At least I did. What solutions you got.

Solutions to what problem, exactly? I don't find that having a place with people of different opinions is a problem. I don't find that others having an issue with it is a problem either, at least not one that any of the rest of us have a moral incentive to remedy. And if you happen to find this response of mine unsatisfactory, well... that is also something I think we can all live with, for now.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #352857 by
I respect you Gisteron, and you have point of view that I have not considered. Something new is apreciated. Thank you. Unfortunately I met my match. Lol. Well done. I got to hand it to you. My only request is be gentile with me. Your out my league. I got lots to learn from you but it takes me a while.
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3 years 8 months ago #352942 by Adder
Give the current restructure a chance I guess, and see if folk can make it work productively for the community rather than themselves... an easy habit to fall into.

Otherwise, discussion could be channeled into specific training modalities, such as;
- critical assessments (destructive testing)
- imaginative interpretations (BYO, brainstorming new views)
- analytical investigations (groupthink teamwork, non-destructive testing)

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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3 years 8 months ago #352944 by
In all honesty and in no disrespect I believe that in a temple or church like setting that you shouldn't have leaders that believe in other religions. Such as catholic, mormon, or so on. I believe that only the truly devoted to the force should be of any status here.

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3 years 8 months ago #352945 by Rosalyn J
That's interesting.

I'd be interested to know your reasoning

Pax Per Ministerium
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3 years 8 months ago #352952 by Carlos.Martinez3

Bradly wrote: In all honesty and in no disrespect I believe that in a temple or church like setting that you shouldn't have leaders that believe in other religions. Such as catholic, mormon, or so on. I believe that only the truly devoted to the force should be of any status here.



Here’s a devil advocate and even real life here -

I am a Jedi minister. (Pastor)
My practices and daily and weekly meetings envolve a lot of INTRA- faith practices. I don’t pray, yet I can encourage other to. Is knowing of faiths and practices the same as knowing other faiths? Truthfully I only claim to be a Jedi, but that doesn’t say a person of Ambrahamic faith can’t hold office or even serve - does it? A Mormon? A Tribesman - some one different than us? Should it ? Granted, we as Modern day Jedi are different in our faith is a bit on the inclusive as much as the individual can balance or choose.
I am interested to know your thoughts Bradly.
Force continue to be with ya

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova

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3 years 8 months ago #352963 by Gisteron

Bradly wrote: In all honesty and in no disrespect I believe that in a temple or church like setting that you shouldn't have leaders that believe in other religions. Such as catholic, mormon, or so on. I believe that only the truly devoted to the force should be of any status here.

So what do you mean by "status", then? If all it stands for is the purity of the holder's faith, then what makes it desirable or admirable? Why would anyone look up to someone who has "status" or want to have any themselves? And if "status" is a measure of spiritual or philosophical maturity, then what would you propose to restrict access to it for those with broader religious sensibilities? If "status" reflects how the community at large respects or values a user's input, what way do you see to control its accumulation without commanding how individual users feel about someone's contributions?

You did of course say that you are talking about positions of authority and leadership. The question, I find, applies here all the same, though. If leadership is a matter of respect among the general congregation, how would one enforce that it be restricted to those who are ideologically pure? If it is a matter of spiritual maturity, why would only the strongly devoted show signs of that? And if leadership should be granted based directly on purity of faith, then what makes it interesting or important to follow that leader?

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned

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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #352965 by
All questions I haven't prepared for. Honestly i will get back tonthat.. but yes those who lack devotion of the force should not be teaching what its like to believe in the force. And or worship the force. When they in fact dont. They can teach the meaning and what they believe the force is. But that is only opinion. Anyone can be apart of the force and say yes I belive.in the force.. but the truth is devotion and belief go hand in hand. I'm not... as well versed in literature as most. So I'm not the best to explain. Nor am I one to lead.. give me time and I shall have answeres. Last time
It took me 2 years just to answer a question that in depth. Patience my brothers and sisters.. and though I say these things. I still love and care and trust all of you. And yes I will listen to all ideas and beliefs in the force..

I'm sorry I will be more in depth later.

May the force guide you.
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