What would help the Temple Be A Better Place? Suggestions please...

In regards to other posts, this area is for Suggestions. Please keep the rhetoric, unfriendly or angered or smart-alecky remarks out of this topic.... Use this section to suggest ideas that one would think would help the Temple in areas throughout the Forums... Anyone using this topic for Shout Boxing, Hurtful, etc., this area will be moderated.....

Okay. I'll start. *ice breaking noises*
I'd like to see us supporting more causes. I'm sure if we banded together to raise funds, for things like childhood diabetes or wounded warriors, we could make some magic happen. That would be pretty exciting.

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I did like the idea of the journals being a bit more secure. Is there anyway that, perhaps, it can be made so that only the original author and the knights can comment on it?

I feel like a lot of people may post VERY personal stuff on there and everyone has access.....maybe it can be done so that people who are, at least, initiates, can view them and not just guests.

I don't know, just my two cents ^^

I'd like to see MORE input from council members. I pm'd most of the "active" council members (with the exception of Wes and Ros who already commented) to please READ Mad Hatters file he and a few other members had spent valuable time in composing and then POST comments in the thread "Tea for your Midicloreans" and none have bothered to follow up and do so. You want suggestions, there......

It is nearing time for the offices at TOTJO to have a real accountability and description to them. As one would have in any successful church.. people don't just do when they feel like it.

While our offices do have descriptions, the accountability is not there yet. Council members should be participating within the temple in a very open fashion. I see it from some, but not all. That was just a piggy back on Zenchi's comment.

I believe that we should still stop supplying free editions of the copyrighted material used in the IP. I know it's hard... but, we should be supporting the authors or their estates... even if they're dead. I say that as an artist who would not want my material just distributed for free without my permission. Oh.. and that supposed back room agreement John has with the publishers? idk... It doesn't sit well with me. Sorry.

I believe that we should continually be revamping the IP. Somebody suggested adding Prometheus Rising to the IP, and it got me thinking that perhaps we should do more module-style than anything else. I believe that we should have a subject, then provide many ways for people to accomplish that subject. Multiple book options... movies... lectures. people learn in different ways.

I believe we should fix the damn chat. But, I've already aired my grievances there.

I'll think of more...

Seconding Zenchi, more visible participation from, involvement by and transparency of Council is way overdue. If the work of Council is taking you away from the community you're supposedly leading, then the work is wrong and the way you go about it needs an overhaul. Leaders shouldn't be strangers... their actions shouldn't only be clear to themselves.

Connor L. wrote:
I believe that we should still stop supplying free editions of the copyrighted material used in the IP. I know it's hard... but, we should be supporting the authors or their estates... even if they're dead. I say that as an artist who would not want my material just distributed for free without my permission. Oh.. and that supposed back room agreement John has with the publishers? idk... It doesn't sit well with me. Sorry.

While I agree wholeheartedly with this comment, you also have to think of the people who want to do the IP but are not able to afford the books. This was one of my worries when I started the IP and was glad when I saw that they were available to all. A lot of churches have libraries in it where it's members are able to borrow books to read, why can't we do that here as well? (as long as it's done correctly, of course).

If people have to pay to learn, they you will probably get lots of complaints about how "this is only for people who have money to pay for a membership" and might even give this place the horrible name of "pay to praise".

Just the way I see it

I'm pretty available, transparent, so much so that I am a ghost. I'd like to see more conversation about training materials .

Also, lack of funds ought not be an impediment to learning. We may be able to put money into a fund for the purpose of purchasing the books for individuals who cannot

Rosalyn J wrote: I'm pretty available, transparent, so much so that I am a ghost. I'd like to see more conversation about training materials .

Also, lack of funds ought not be an impediment to learning. We may be able to put money into a fund for the purpose of purchasing the books for individuals who cannot

Not a bad idea but think of all the people who get halfway through the IP and leave....it's almost a waste of money, in my personal opinion. Unless they were apprentices, that is and even then, it is risky.

Vlad,

A library system would be amazing. I'm not sure what the procedure would be in creating an actual lending library. Sharing digital copies is different than sharing physical copies.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2014/06/09/why-copyright-law-allows-you-to-borrow-a-book-but-not-share-a-digital-song/

I'd be happy to help try and figure that out... anything except this free-for-all we have going on here. It is not our information to give away for free. That's the problem. The temple has no right to really make it pay-to-play either, since they don't own this intellectual property.

If we were to create our OWN information for the IP (something also oft discussed), this wouldn't be a problem. And, the temple would never charge for that information either, which is just fine with me.

vladucard wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote: I'm pretty available, transparent, so much so that I am a ghost. I'd like to see more conversation about training materials .

Also, lack of funds ought not be an impediment to learning. We may be able to put money into a fund for the purpose of purchasing the books for individuals who cannot

Not a bad idea but think of all the people who get halfway through the IP and leave....it's almost a waste of money, in my personal opinion. Unless they were apprentices, that is and even then, it is risky.

You will find that knights often find ways to support those apprentices who cannot afford the books... Jestor chose lessons that did not require the purchasing of materials.

I feel like a lot of people may post VERY personal stuff on there and everyone has access.....maybe it can be done so that people who are, at least, initiates, can view them and not just guests.

While I understand, some of us guests have journals.. I would also caution against posting anything online anywhere that one does not want (or expect) others to read.

ah, yes, true! Internet 101, mind what you post for others to see ^^

I think the Temple as an "Entity" should have more confidence in itself.

Whilst I appreciate constantly being asked for my input - The Temple is bigger than me. We have plenty of Knights (who can provide the training an apprentice wants/needs in their own way.)

The IP is fine (as far as I know...I'm not exactly well into it) -It doesn't need to be made more detailed or varied - the apprenticeship system allows for that.

There are technical problems with the site - Everyone knows this.

I understand we do have the odd Knight step down because they decide it ain't no good- They're probably the ones you want to engage for flaws with TotJO.

For the rest of us (Me, other Members, Guests, random whackos) - I suggest a firmer hand.
Acceptance is one thing - but any parent knows at some point you have to tell the kids they can't wear batman costumes to school and there is such a thing as bed time.

I'm mildly curious as to how the council and others who are working in the administration feel about this and what more can be done on our (non-council/administration personnel) end as well. Perhaps there are things that can be done to help out or process things faster.

As to what I think could be improved, I have no response currently as I am working on what I feel needs to be changed and will wait and see what happens as a result of my efforts.

I would like to see more accountability from the top. I'd like to see discussions on how to remove problem officers from positions that have no term limits. I'd like to see discourse on term limits, perhaps, or session limits. I'd like to see us actually lay out specifics on a boatload of topics and come to generalized agreements on what the heck it is we're on about here. I'd like for us to have a working, flexible definition of "Jedi" for example, that doesn't just rely on self-labelling. I'd like to see us work toward a space where we could actually do some good, and for us to move toward the background work necessary to make that happen.

I have 2 years experience running non-profits (2 of them) and charitable groups. Please message me if the Council is in need of consultation there!

Ok, here is what I would change if I ran things, mostly on the IP

1. Make the IP compulsory for membership

TOTJO receives lots of new visitors that are attracted by the "Jedi" label and simply want to join to call themselves Jedi. Anyone should be able to register as a "Guest" and participate in introduction and open forums, but if they desire membership, they should complete the IP. Thus, the "member" and "novice" ranks would be eliminated, and anyone who is still serious will prove it, by doing the IP.

2. Make the IP 100% private

The way I envision this, is that any Guest could read through the IP curricula, but would not be able to read others' IP journals. The way I would set this up, is to have the Guest submit an application (web form) formally petitioning to begin training, which would send out an email to the IP team. The IP team would then assign a sponsor in charge of that particular Guest, who would receive by mail all work done (which would have to be completed in whole lessons, not sporadic posts). The sponsor would then create a thread for the Guest in a private forum accesible only to the IP team and Knights, and would post within this person's thread any emails sent out or received to keep accountability of both the Guest and the Sponsor's work.

This would do a few things:

• Make plagiarism virtually impossible
• Make the Guest feel accompanied while doing the IP
• Filter out people who are not serious about becoming members

3. Make the IP longer, and use our own materials only.

I would divide the IP into modules, adding more to it. I would, however, only use materials which are not copyrighted, preferably written by Knights here. Current lessons that involve copyrighted materials, would be optional, and people would have to acquire them on their own (they are not THAT hard to find for free if you really take some time to look).

4. Make IP completion memorable.

It's been tough, it's been long, but the Guest finally is a full member! (I might even be persuaded to drop the "Initiate" title and simply keep "Member", but that is not important. Make it memorable by issuing the new member a digital certificate of membership (members could also get a physical copy if they desire by paying for it).

The way I envision this, is that any Guest could read through the IP curricula, but would not be able to read others' IP journals. The way I would set this up, is to have the Guest submit an application (web form) formally petitioning to begin training, which would send out an email to the IP team. The IP team would then assign a sponsor in charge of that particular Guest, who would receive by mail all work done (which would have to be completed in whole lessons, not sporadic posts). The sponsor would then create a thread for the Guest in a private forum accesible only to the IP team and Knights, and would post within this person's thread any emails sent out or received to keep accountability of both the Guest and the Sponsor's work.

This would do a few things:

• Make plagiarism virtually impossible
• Make the Guest feel accompanied while doing the IP
• Filter out people who are not serious about becoming members

While I appreciate what it is you're trying to do with this suggestion, having assisted with the IP Team in the past, I can say that it is already hurting for people with the time and resources to manage the current load of reading what people post themselves. Such a system would very likely make for a caseload that is just impossible to manage at all. And frankly...It would honestly be taking away the responsibility from the person doing the IP. The biggest issue that this would address - plagiarism - is virtually non-existent to begin with.

Here's what else I see this creating as a problem: IP Journals being available for other novices to read gives everyone involved a learning opportunity. It's open so that everyone from the guest level all the way up to a grand master can read a person's post and go "Oh hey, I didn't think of that before. That's actually rather interesting!" I know I've done it before, both while I was doing the IP and since I have completed it.

Further, right now, individuals who are going through the IP have the option to have someone 'accompanying' them or not, rather than forcing it upon them as such a system would do. While people can learn from the IP as it is currently set up, it's primary purpose is to expose individuals to generalized ideas and get their thoughts on that idea back, so as to help match up with a good teaching master. The IP Team's current stated purpose is not so much as to 'accompany' a person through the program and teach them, as your idea reads to me, as it is to go "Hey, you did a great job of covering on these points; I can tell you really thought this through" or "You know, you did a good job of covering this and this, but you might want to consider these other points as well."

In fact, having gotten to this point in responding to your suggestion, I've come to the realization that we already have a program in place exactly like that which you're suggestion. We call it an apprenticeship, which in and of itself covers just about every other suggestion you made.


I get the thought and idea behind trying to make the IP necessary in order to become a member at all, but I don't think I agree with it. We've always separated what's necessary for membership within the church, and what's necessary in order to obtain rank within the church, and membership itself has never been dependent upon one's desire to obtain rank. I'm not sure we should start doing that.

Honestly, the first thought I had in response to this question was to make a bad joke out of it...

***
What would help the temple be a better place?
...
Better people. (cue laughter)
***

But to answer more seriously-


1) I think more support and accountability of (and for) every individual would be help improve the temple! ...

... Support and accountability already exists between some members (Apprentices of the same knight for example often bond over the same material they're given to study) or through discussions on threads, but I believe this support could be further developed and encouraged by the temple from the beginning asking new starters to chat and help one another: it could take the form of an optional buddy system where you 'buddy up' with a fellow learner or 'peer' as it were to discuss the material. I think this would improve the community by creating more connections between people (and it could be presented and made in such a way as to encourage positivity, openess and kindness in those relationships).

2) Before joining a buddy system (see point 1) a couple of pointers could be read to help smoothen future relationships between buddies. We have a great variety of people and opinion here and it seems to me that a lesson in the IP asking A ) why might it be important to be able to discuss and debate with other people? B ) how do you discuss and debate positively? C ) What's important to you in a discussion? and then showing your answers to your buddy. This would be a valuable lesson I think.


3) I know this is a temple of jedi but I actually think there should be less focus on what it is to be a Jedi and more focus on certain concepts that should help understand ourselves and one another regardless of what name we take for ourselves, Jedi or not... (One concept I think would worth educating people about is *Confirmation Bias*- https://www.farnamstreetblog.com/2017/05/confirmation-bias/ - well worth reading).

I've ran out of time it seems to continue writing sorry- but thankyou for your question and opportunity to think,

More of our lessons and content written by members themselves. One of the best points on Jediism is that it takes a plethora of idea's that have been around from other various religions, thrown in some more recent ones, and made it a more modern view of a belief system. However we still focus I think a little too heavily on books and documents and write ups from all the places where this comes from, and not enough writing from our own experiences to be shared and used as lessons. One of the reasons I spent a good chunk of time away from the temple and wrote the "tellahane's holocron" which recently just got approved and put in the library. We really need to see more genuine content written by people who have truly gone out and applied these lessons to their lives and are willing to write there experiences into lessons for others. While it's nice to be able to reference the history of a concept or idea for learning, this is about bringing it up to modern day views of the concepts. What better way then to shape them out of our own experiences on the path.