What would help the Temple Be A Better Place? Suggestions please...

In reference to the arguments- I find a lot of these are due to one major problem that this temple can not currently change....communication. This temple is online. while reading, you can't always interpret things like voice inflection. It's how things are interpreted that's causing a lot of the fuss, not the accual words that are written, or the intent behind them. Not always the case but a good percentage of the time that's what I see.

Reference to Star Wars posting- I personally don't care how anyone else sees me or my beliefs. I'm more than willing to share them with anyone who asks. I'm here for me and my spiritual needs, not anyone else's. ( that's what the clergy are for) If I were questioned publicly about my faith Id openly say I'm a Jedi. If they laugh I'll smile and explain, If they are curious I explain in more detail, If they ask about Star Wars, I'll say there great movies that sparked the idea for my faith. I'm here because I relate to the fictional Jedi. I strive to be more like them. That being said, I'm a grown up, and more than capable of separating the two. But a lot of things that make me a better person came from those movies. Things like lightsabers of course arnt real, but what they represent is very real. There are a lot of us who own robes. And I assure you it's not because we believe we're space warrior monks, or think there super warm, But it's what the robe represents that makes them important to us. I personally don't wear them daily or out in public nor do I see a need too. The temple home page explains that we don't worship George Lucas, or Star Wars. It's the very first thing you read. But those movies are a common ground to a lot of people, and if posting about them helps even one person better understand what I believe, in a way they can visualize, then not only do I think they should be allowed, but I'd encourage more of it. Just my opinion.

In reference to Senan being human- not sure...never met him in person. Lol

Zero_storm wrote: In reference to the arguments- I find a lot of these are due to one major problem that this temple can not currently change....communication. This temple is online. while reading, you can't always interpret things like voice inflection. It's how things are interpreted that's causing a lot of the fuss, not the accual words that are written, or the intent behind them. Not always the case but a good percentage of the time that's what I see.

Agreed. This is why more people should join the discord and get involved in verbal chats.

Agreed ari

Senan I still think your kindhearted. Please don't take that as a criticism. You're a good person.

Neaj Pa Bol: There needs to be some kind of pledge towards service at the higher levels of the organization: if its true: I concede it is: that a Jedi's life and intention is to serve the whole of humanity and not just their own ego... then it should be an oath to do so... its not so uncommon: I think you will find the Order of the Templars: of which I happen to be a member both medical and military: somewhere where apparently we emerged from: The deep workings of Lucas's mind... that the Jedi esp. knights within the ranks of the highest orders: would give their life defending not only liberty: freedom from oppression, their life to defend: the vulnerable the weak and the unable... that ones service would be molded around these principles: these are the foundations of knight hood... they should be honored as such. I am not saying we should all join the military and fight in combat in order to do this. Nor am I saying we should all become medical specialists to do so... I am simply stating that a commitment would be nice... If: Qui-Gon Jinn was alive: that he would recommend it: some-kind of course or training both online and with physical presence would be admirable: something comprehensive and geared towards not only the spiritual teachings of the age old jediism that lives within our souls, force and incarnations: but a physical one as well: that focuses on the mental capacity for resilience in the face of adversity: mental toughness in the face of difficulty and the rest of the psychological dispositions and characteristics of a Jedi knight... Raven would be happy to see it and to this day we have accomplished alot even training the elite green beret commanders and officers of the US army...

This may seem extreme but it could be fun also: to practice the age old arts of the Jedi mind trick, to tap the psychic ability latent in us all: validated now by studies conducted by the US Navy and specialist research branches within the US government... the Jedi have been highly esteemed as psychic warriors that could take on entire nations if they had to....

I am not saying that it needs to be this intense... rigorous: it can be causal , relaxed and friendly: esp. for the beginning stages: a spiritual journey of enlightenment and self realization, knowing, understanding: moral reasoning/ ethical consideration: on how one can commit to a life of service... PSI skills, mindfulness, breath work, nervous system control and integration of the whole human complex into one action is fun to me: even the healing arts: reiki, energy healing practices and all manner of other modalities are available: sound healing, crystal energy work, affirmation and such: journaling is only one of them... so is yoga, tai chi, qi gong and numerous other age old meditations of buddhist, esoteric and magical traditions can be: both collective: practiced within a group or individual: practiced solo: our ability for visualization marks us unique from most other forms of life as you know... then theirs general intelligence: this could be very practical as well: for the sakes of efficient and effective communication skills: emotional intelligence training, multiple intelligence evaluation; as we all know we are not just an IQ score: we are kinetic, spiritual, environmentally aware... some are musically inclined, others artistic or predisposed to higher frequencies of thought: comprehension of complex patterns, synthesis based cohesion, root cause comprehension: basically analytical skills. Most lack the capacity for clear and effective constructive criticism... basic communication patterns, styles and ability could be taught... as well as the power of the mind to well overcome just about anything...

We should learn about emotions... grieving, sadness and happiness as well: joy even... and how they affect us all every day all year round...

This singular act of inclusion could change transform and help a great deal of people... sensitive, loving seekers of enlightenment...whom struggle in the real world because their abilities, their intelligence, their gifts are not validated...

What we require in the long run: are well educated Jedi: that truly know what the force is: this is not a diverse opinion matter: electromagnetic frequency are around us all the time... some can feel it more than others... while the most advanced of us can tap it... kinetic ability is not unheard of: and chi is simply energy that can be used in a diverse manner of performance related capacity...

I would suggest borrowing some positive psychology games, methods and tests: knowing our own aversions, character strengths and weaknesses, capacity for emotional levels of happiness right to eudima can help us better understand the future of reflective and self processing psychology where we are all our own therapists... as well as opening up space for dialogue and communication around sexuality... maybe Tantra could help... or embodied practices of a gestalt nature... non violent communication could be taught: as well as loving kindness when entering the realms of correct and proper spiritual relationship: as this is a topic that greatly effects us all and make or break a true Jedi... learning to be conscious of the dynamic waves of tension and relaxation in our own bodies is only the beginning... learning to polarize and creating dynamic harmony between genders as not only brothers and sisters, committed partners, but lovers and eventually man and wife...

Dedication, commitment and willingness to learn need to be the bedrocks of a organization that seeks to bring service to the world, enlightenment to its members: in terms of understanding out true power, our place in society and well our capacity for change... transformation and ability to tackle the problems and issues apparent in the 21st century and beyond...

JEDIONE777 wrote: This may seem extreme but it could be fun also: to practice the age old arts of the Jedi mind trick, to tap the psychic ability latent in us all: validated now by studies conducted by the US Navy and specialist research branches within the US government... the Jedi have been highly esteemed as psychic warriors that could take on entire nations if they had to....

How about you make a youtube series on how to do this? If the science is there, as you claim, then make it a reality rather than expect others to make it for you. Be the change you want to see.

JEDIONE777 wrote: The deep workings of Lucas's mind... that the Jedi esp. knights within the ranks of the highest orders: would give their life defending not only liberty: freedom from oppression, their life to defend: the vulnerable the weak and the unable... that ones service would be molded around these principles: these are the foundations of knight hood... they should be honored as such. I am not saying we should all join the military and fight in combat in order to do this. Nor am I saying we should all become medical specialists to do so... I am simply stating that a commitment would be nice...

Are you saying that we're not committed unless we're willing to lay down our lives for this? Fat lotta good we'll do for the world if we're all dead...

"I want a world of brave and courageous people. Indeed, those who work hard and are agnostics are more acceptable, for a time, than lazy spiritual hypocrites."[29]
"The fear of death is born with man, though this is the only thing that he knows is certain to happen to him. Attachment to material things makes man cling to life. When you chant the Name of the Divine, when you are one with the divine, you accept death. While you are attached to life and afraid of death, you die with that fear and that weight clinging to you. If you have attained liberation you are free from death (you accept the inevitable). You die without fear and by remembering the Name of God, your soul leaves the body free of that fear and attachment. If you are reborn, your soul is still free from that fear. If you die in "unity", you are free from rebirth, unless you will it.
1 December 1982: BABAJI

JEDIONE777 - We actually do take an oath upon becoming TOTJO Knights here.

“I, ____________, (please state your name)
... born on _____________, (please state your date of birth)
... profess before all and without reservation,
… that I choose to devote myself to the Jedi path.
I vow to uphold the Jedi teachings, ...
… to fulfil the duties and responsibilities of a Knight, ...
… and to cultivate understanding of the Force.

We also recite the Knight's Code during our Knighting Ceremonies and Knight Meetings as reminders of our duty to serve.

The Knights Code
A Knight is sworn to valor.
His heart knows only virtue;
His blade defends the helpless;
His word speaks only truth;
His Shield shelters the forsaken;
His courage gives hope to the despairing;
His justice undoes the wicked;
His image brings peace;
His code breaks the darkness;
His legend brings light.

These are merely words to some, but others take these extremely seriously and commit time and effort every day to meeting these lofty standards. You speak of a pledge to serve, but more important is the actual service. You can suggest how we might improve as Jedi, but it would be much more beneficial to us if you could show us through your own actions and be the example for us to follow. I'm not saying you don't practice the Jedi way. I'm saying that we don't know each other well enough for me to determine if your words are just that, words, or actually speak of your actions.

It is easy to speak of fear and death when you're not currently in mortal danger, but as someone with stage four cancer that is likely terminal, I can tell you that inspiring quotes from religious texts sound great, but do not make us impervious to fearing our own demise. Death is an inevitable reality, but that doesn't always make it less scary. Forgive my cynicism, but we have a lot of armchair philosophers around here who like to use lofty quotes and big words, but do very little in the way of actually effecting change for the better in their own world. I do what little I can every day, and in this way I make my world better. We don't always need grand gestures or death defying feats of courage in order to be good Jedi.

I did not say we do... please read my writing carefully before making inferences... and consider what I am saying. It also helps to actually point by point: find similarities in outlook or things you agree with... I agree with being an example... I try to do my best with these things... I don't understand them either sometimes... thank you for listening... and the all diving part: yes that may very well happen if we do not stick up for one another and nourish and support one another the world over... isolationism has never been the Jedi's way: neither has extreme neutrality accept maybe from the grey faction... whom actually will and did fight for freedom... in the stories/archives fictional aspect of this story/ legend... what ever you wish to call it: the path as you always seem to refer to: is not set in stone: but as I mentioned has certain trials and tribulations... its not only for those whom wish to overcome their fear of the unknown or even death: to reach the great beyond... but to develop the skills necessary to survive in a world full of fear, greed and malice... I try and find the good in everything in every argument... maybe you should try doing the same before accusing me of having a death wish...

JEDIONE777 wrote: yes that may very well happen if we do not stick up for one another and nourish and support one another the world over... isolationism has never been the Jedi's way...

Hehe, never been part of their way? Tell that to Obi Wan, Yoda, Luke, ect ect. ;P

But I do get your point. But being prepared to die and laying down ones life are different things. I've been near death three times in my life. If my moment comes, it comes. But I'm not gonna be lying it down for anything unless I see due cause (eg. The systematic hunting down of Jedi... which, if we're being honest with ourselves, won't happen).

Accept for very long meditations on other planets of course... Arisaig... this was also combined with saving the galaxy from take over by there dark force and eventual destruction of everything we hold dear... love and recall in life... fighting for it is a natural instinct if it came down to it... I think most people will: thats the part of the problem were all attached to different nations; attached to the identity: and don't see ourselves as global citizens: I think these characters would have seen themselves as part of a growing, dynamic and expanding as well as evolving universe/galaxy and cosmos... not as isolated individuals serving their own ego. What I am outlining here: is that they served the force... and so followed their intuition about how to best so do that... thats where were all different Arisaig: We all intuit our own way on how to do so...

For example Asriag... is I Said to you "its a nice day to die today Asriag" Would you curl up in a little ball like a child might do or actually rise to the challange of what might be trying to do that to you? I think the choice is very clear: we make a stand for what we love.. our freedom... our way of life or we run... Ill be going with you on that run if this nuclear falll out happens to somewhere neutral just like most people will... because you cannot stop a nuclear missile Asariag... none of us is that strong yet... the power to do that may very well be fictional... and not relative to the human capacity for feat... so yes I would leave and live in relative isolation due to this... because I would not be able to stop a nuke... if anyone was to threaten my family or group I would defend myself and them also... this is natural when its right in front of you asriag how you would react well try and respond to the madness that this world has become... I try and see the sanity In us all, the common thread that weaves its way thru our DNA and makes us human,.. the goodness in us all... may the force be with you brother...

If I want to hear about theories regarding other planets and our spiritual connections, I'll watch Ancient Aliens....

Oh, wait, I am! It's playing in the background right now- and their "logic" makes more sense than what you're trying to sell, Alex. You need some work on your delivery.

PRO-TIP: Lurk for awhile and actively pay attention to what people are talking about so you can form an understanding of what it is you're looking at inspiring people to do. You might find out that what you want people to be doing, they are already doing....And they're doing it better than you.

First of all, derailing of this thread aside, I always find it amazing how the Jedi of this temple spend so much effort in claiming a distance from the roots of their faith in Star Wars and yet anytime a debate breaks out they can’t help but quote Star Wars places, events, characters and their fictional actions. How do you ever expect anyone to take you seriously if you can’t have a conversation without bringing fictional elements into your conversations? I mean seriously? Claiming that “if Qui Gon were alive he would recommend X Y or Z verses being isolated and then countering that by claiming that Obiwan, Luke and Yoda did it? How is any of that even the slightest bit in the realm of reality?


Secondly…

JEDIONE777 wrote: This may seem extreme but it could be fun also: to practice the age old arts of the Jedi mind trick, to tap the psychic ability latent in us all: validated now by studies conducted by the US Navy and specialist research branches within the US government...

esp. for the beginning stages:

... PSI skills, mindfulness, breath work, nervous system control and integration of the whole human complex into one action

reiki, energy healing practices and all manner of other modalities are available:

sound healing,
crystal energy work,

some are musically inclined, others artistic or predisposed to higher frequencies of thought:

comprehension of complex patterns, synthesis based cohesion,
root cause comprehension:

We should learn about emotions... grieving, sadness and happiness as well: joy even... and how they affect us all every day all year round...

This singular act of inclusion could change transform and help a great deal of people... sensitive, loving seekers of enlightenment...whom struggle in the real world because their abilities, their intelligence, their gifts are not validated...

electromagnetic frequency are around us all the time... some can feel it more than others... while the most advanced of us can tap it...

kinetic ability is not unheard of: and chi is simply energy that can be used in a diverse manner of performance related capacity...

I picked the most incoherent portions of this post and I just need to ask, what does any of this mean or how is it in any way relevant to the path of a Jedi by what you claim is a minimum standard? You make unfounded assertion with nothing to back it up. The govt seems to be involved in some grand conspiracy? How does one “tap” the electromagnetic frequency? What are higher frequencies of thought? Synthesis based cohesion? Kinetic ability? What does any of that even mean??

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: First of all, derailing of this thread aside, I always find it amazing how the Jedi of this temple spend so much effort in claiming a distance from the roots of their faith in Star Wars and yet anytime a debate breaks out they can’t help but quote Star Wars places, events, characters and their fictional actions. How do you ever expect anyone to take you seriously if you can’t have a conversation without bringing fictional elements into your conversations? I mean seriously? Claiming that “if Qui Gon were alive he would recommend X Y or Z verses being isolated and then countering that by claiming that Obiwan, Luke and Yoda did it? How is any of that even the slightest bit in the realm of reality?

So what if it draws from the fiction? Do not other faiths draw from the works that inspired them? I do not steer clear of the fiction, they are our basis, without them, there wouldn't be "Jedi". I make no effort in claiming a distance from the fiction. When I tell someone "I am a Jedi", they automatically draw comparisons from the fiction. Its my job then to show them the line between the real and the fake, but we do hold that presitge. When I took on the mantle of Jedi, you adopt the mantle taken on by the jedi, real and fake. Here, the fiction and reality are closely meshed. If they aren't, well... then this place becomes Daoists and Buddhists in Jedi robes.

I do agree, though, that we can't use fictional persons to make a point. (ie. if Qui Gon was alive he would...) That holds no merit, I do agree there. His opinion doesn't matter because he doesn't exist.

I am a Lightsabre wielding, robe wearing Jedi and proud of it. Because I want to emulate those legends. I want to emulate the wisdom of these fake persons, because even though they're fake they do teach lessons. Sometimes the best lessons we learn are from people that have never existed.

But alas, my earlier point was a joke. I thought I had made it clear enough as sarcasm (ie. winky face). See below for my full quote. Take not of the "hehe" and emotes.

Arisaig wrote: Hehe, never been part of their way? Tell that to Obi Wan, Yoda, Luke, ect ect. ;P

Arisaig wrote: But alas, my earlier point was a joke. I thought I had made it clear enough as sarcasm (ie. winky face). See below for my full quote. Take not of the "hehe" and emotes.

Why do you make such an impassioned plea for the value in the fiction and then in your last statements just dismiss all that by saying it was just a joke anyway?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: But alas, my earlier point was a joke. I thought I had made it clear enough as sarcasm (ie. winky face). See below for my full quote. Take not of the "hehe" and emotes.

Why do you make such an impassioned plea for the value in the fiction and then in your last statements just dismiss all that by saying it was just a joke anyway?

Because my statement that you had refereed to was a joke, but you made it seem as otherwise. I just wanted to clarify that it was a jest, in case it had been taken as a serious statement. I am, after all, allowed to make a joke from time to time.

As for the "impassioned plea", which I would describe as more of an argument towards the incorporation of the fiction in this Temple, well... that is because you asked. See below:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: How do you ever expect anyone to take you seriously if you can’t have a conversation without bringing fictional elements into your conversations? I mean seriously? Claiming that “if Qui Gon were alive he would recommend X Y or Z verses being isolated and then countering that by claiming that Obiwan, Luke and Yoda did it? How is any of that even the slightest bit in the realm of reality?

As you can see, twas merely a response. I am only supplying how I view the matter of the fiction and this place. I'm not saying we can use it as the source of an argument for or against something. But without the fiction, this place may as well be an online Buddhism course.If you don't agree, oh well. C'est la vie.

Arisaig wrote: I am only supplying how I view the matter of the fiction and this place. I'm not saying we can use it as the source of an argument for or against something. But without the fiction, this place may as well be an online Buddhism course.

I have had to do some reevaluation on this very question in the context of discussions going on in the Clergy. As resistant as I've been to referencing the fiction in my ministry until now, I'm finally starting to see the truth in what you say. The fiction was designed in part to illustrate the spiritual questions posed by Campbell, Watts, at al; throwing it out and expecting everyone to relate to the source material without the intermediary metaphor is a waste of what could be valuable and relatable teaching tools.

Arisaig wrote: Because my statement that you had refereed to was a joke, but you made it seem as otherwise. I just wanted to clarify that it was a jest, in case it had been taken as a serious statement. I am, after all, allowed to make a joke from time to time.

I thought it was otherwise. The poster you replied to seems to take the fictional lore very seriously based on his comments. Then as a joke your reply was not designed to encourage or give constructive criticism but to belittle him. So if the lore is a valuable source of instruction why do you disparage it like that in this case by using it as a source of mockery? As a Jedi is this a trait you aspire to?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I thought it was otherwise. The poster you replied to seems to take the fictional lore very seriously based on his comments. Then as a joke your reply was not designed to encourage or give constructive criticism but to belittle him. So if the lore is a valuable source of instruction why do you disparage it like that in this case by using it as a source of mockery? As a Jedi is this a trait you aspire to?

I dunno, must have a different Star Wars wherever you are from here. I seem to remember some of my favourite quotes from the Jedi are... well... sassy.

Exhibit A


But still, seems like you're down for arguing for the sake of arguing today. Everyone here knows I don't belittle people. I may jab, but always in friendly jest. I'm not a malicious person, and thankfully I have that reputation. We don't climb a mountain by shoving people back down, especially if we're all attached to the same line (ie. The Force). And that was all my point was. A friendly jab. Hence, as previously mentioned, I denoted it as humour.