What would help the Temple Be A Better Place? Suggestions please...

SamThift wrote: How/why would this Temple act differently?

The argument could be made that we would act differently because we are different. We tout Jediism as a syncretic faith that is inclusive. We say all the time that anyone can be a "Jedi" regardless of rank or membership and we purposely do not standardize our training beyond the IP because everyone "walks their own path". If we truly believe these things we say, then forcing people down our IP path to be a member is saying you are a Jedi, just not enough to be TOTJO Jedi. I wonder what benefit that would have to us.

Making someone a "member" does not negatively impact anyone else here except for those responsible for processing the applications feeling that they are wasting time. I would ask yourself, if a member never come back ever again, does it affect me? If not, why exclude them from membership? People who are committed will show it. People who aren't will not. The labels we put on each other won't change that. What is at stake is access and the ability to participate in a Temple that should be more open, not less.

I'm suprised more members of the military community haven't spoken up about this.

When I signed up for the Forces, I was put on a waiting list (akin to our 7 day waiting period). When I was accepted in, I became a member. I was given a rank (akin to our "member" rank). After that you have to earn it. I was a private, and any rank I wanted after that I had to earn. That would involve training (again akin to our IP).

I find this very much like what we have here. Anyone can become a member, yes. But its that acceptance that helps people move forward. Other ranks (novice and above) are only attainable by putting forward a valid effort and applying yourself to training.

Now perhaps I could put forward an idea?

Perhaps make certain places blocked off for even members. As it is, you must become a member to discuss in the Jediism sub-forum... perhaps it is time for that to change. Perhaps Novice's and above should only be allowed to be in there. Yes, Novice is an easy rank to attain... but yet we have many that become a member and teeter off. But in the end it would add something to attain, making more people want to participate in the IP.

I'm pretty sure this was also brought up... but perhaps also make journals only visible to the person writing it and Initiates and above. This would not only prevent copywrite, but also add security, as only people that had put forward a full effort into becoming part of this commuity would be able to view it.

We have the rank of Initiate for those that have completed the IP. That's why it's there. Blocking membership for those that don't finish the IP would be, well, unfair. What of those that already have Novice rank? would they lose that title?

In the end, ranks is just that... a jpeg underneath your avatar that signifies what you've done while here. Having ranks such as novice and member differentiates those that have DONE something here. It shows which have logged on once and didn't come back, or those that are on the fence about joining. It shows those that made the consious decision to become a member. It shows those that decided to take the bold and brave step to undertake the training.

If you want to consider those that finish the IP as "Members", then look to the Initates. Thats what the rank is there for.

Avalonslight wrote: There was a young, new member in chat today. Their application was finally accepted and status changed. They're actively engaged in the IP. And you know what they said: "I'm no longer on the outside." That speaks to something. There's an explicit sense of non-inclusion when one is told "you're just a guest"...

Well, we should definitely work on managing expectations. I understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I see value in it as well. However, I do think we should measure this example of "inclusion" with the unreasonable expectation of "I am member, voila! I am a Jedi", which is not inherently bad, but sets people up for the expectation that there is nothing to work towards.

Avalonslight wrote: I was a guest for almost two years on the site before I finally put in my membership application. I did so because, when I joined, the Simple Oath was still a membership requirement. We moved it back to post-IP because people were saying "why should I take an oath when I'm still learning." Because like you said, "pledging support of" something only makes sense after time and commitment have been made. But membership is not a "pledge of support". It's saying "I find something in this community which speaks to me and I'd like to be a part of it" and giving people the option to do so before any training program says "we value you as an individual and welcome you to our society so that you can grow within it as you choose." There's nothing meaningless in allowing people to do that.

If membership simply means "member of a forum", then sure, no reason why they shouldn't become members. In that case, we should just get rid of the "Guest" rank, seeing as plenty of Guests regularly interact and add a lot of value in the boards as well. That way, everyone is included.

I'm pretty sure this was also brought up... but perhaps also make journals only visible to the person writing it and Initiates and above. This would not only prevent copywrite, but also add security, as only people that had put forward a full effort into becoming part of this commuity would be able to view it.

This only helps those working on the IP and those who don't want input from others. Some people post in journals not doing the IP but do so under the guidance of others. And why should initiates read the journals of non-initiates if the non-initiates are not working on the IP? It doesn't make sense.

If someone really wants to keep things private, I see no reason why they can't save everything off site and submit it to someone for review outside of the forum or by PM, that way it's private but nobody else has to have restrictions to their journals.

Perhaps Novice's and above should only be allowed to be in there. Yes, Novice is an easy rank to attain... but yet we have many that become a member and teeter off. But in the end it would add something to attain, making more people want to participate in the IP.

Or scare them off.

How/why would this Temple act differently?

If you went to the same church for 2 years every Sunday and more, would you still consider yourself a guest even if you hadn't taken confirmation or been christened? There are members here who have been so for years without the IP.. do we really consider them 'guests'? I personally don't think so.

Edan,

So, I just noticed. Why are you a Guest and not a Member?

Manu wrote: Edan,

So, I just noticed. Why are you a Guest and not a Member?

I will PM you..

Manu wrote: For the person joining, what meaning does it hold to become an official member if they have not done the IP, which helps understand the basics of what this site is? A flashy "Jedi" title?

I can only speak for myself of course, but to me it's very meaningful indeed. Largely because of physical and mental health issues, I reckon the IP will take me between 6-12 months. I've only done two journal posts that are lessons. But I feel very much like part of the community. I'm a *member* of the community regardless of how many planned lessons I've done. I've done a heck of a lot of extracurricular learning here that is important too. To be told I can't be officially called a member of the community until I've done a certain amount of learning on particular topics in a particular way would, for me, be pretty disheartening.

ReallyRiver wrote: I can only speak for myself of course, but to me it's very meaningful indeed. Largely because of physical and mental health issues, I reckon the IP will take me between 6-12 months. I've only done two journal posts that are lessons. But I feel very much like part of the community. I'm a *member* of the community regardless of how many planned lessons I've done. I've done a heck of a lot of extracurricular learning here that is important too. To be told I can't be officially called a member of the community until I've done a certain amount of learning on particular topics in a particular way would, for me, be pretty disheartening.

But why?

Manu wrote:

ReallyRiver wrote: I can only speak for myself of course, but to me it's very meaningful indeed. Largely because of physical and mental health issues, I reckon the IP will take me between 6-12 months. I've only done two journal posts that are lessons. But I feel very much like part of the community. I'm a *member* of the community regardless of how many planned lessons I've done. I've done a heck of a lot of extracurricular learning here that is important too. To be told I can't be officially called a member of the community until I've done a certain amount of learning on particular topics in a particular way would, for me, be pretty disheartening.

But why?

To use a crude simile... it would be like buying a football shirt for your team, learning all the players' names and histories, but not being allowed in the members' bar while everyone else sits inside and talks about the latest match while you're outside with your pint wondering why nobody will let you in.

And I don't know what I did to make that all be a quote, lol. Sorry if it's confusing