The totjo´s look on suicide

Alluvius wrote: Speaking from the point of view of someone who was also beaten at home and bullied at school; are you trying to convince me that there was NO point in your helpless existence when you thought "Please, god, just kill me." ? (Because while you would not be the first to not admit it, you would be the first to have never felt it...)

This is not a factual statement. It is an assumption because *you* do not have the capacity to do so. That does not mean everyone else is just like you.

I, also, have *never* considered or thought of suicide. Ever.

Are you sure that it's your "nicer" side that returned, and not simply that your "darker" or "stronger" side (which ever you prefer) has learned to be civil?

One thing I will grant without reservation...we must suffer in order to grow and sometimes in order to reach our full potential...

This may not be the place to air such things, and I apologize if I make you feel "singled out", or uncomfortable, but you have admitted anger management issues, and now you say that some (probably most if not all, if we're being completely honest here) of your exes call you "emotionally distant"...it sounds to me like you haven't endured as well as you think you have. Perhaps you're still breathing, but there's more to enduring than mere survival. Technically, to endure only means to suffer patiently, or to tolerate, but the implication is so much more. The implication of enduring is to survive "in tact"...and clearly we have not. We all find our own "strength" in dark times, we all find our own "defense mechanisms" for dealing with that level of betrayal. There are some common "themes" however. We all tend to "turn inward" not necessarily becoming "shy", but definitely becoming "private" people. We all tend to develop the ability to "shut off" our emotions...it helps us survive the nightmare...even tho we all tend to forget how to "turn them back on again" later. We all tend to cling to our rage as a means of not only survival, but as comfort in uncertain times. We have come to not understand most emotions due to lack of development, so we cling to the negative ones (like rage) because they're what's familiar, and in that way "comfortable". We grow up to be "rageaholics", Borderlines, and in extreme cases Disassociative Identities, and if we have children we continue the cycle on them because we don't understand that we are broken, that we did not "endure", or to be symbolic, that we did not "survive" our childhoods.

Yes, Ryu, I mourn you, but no more than I mourn me, or any other abused child. We do not ask for, or need pity, but a little understanding goes a long way. You can "resurrect" yourself, but not until you're willing to accept the fact that you've "died".

I'm going to stop here because I know how you're going to respond, it's the same way I would have a few years ago. And nothing constructive can come of this conversation, until you're ready to have it (I'm also fairly certain, that when you're ready to have this conversation, it won't be with me).

The Force is with you RyuJin, you can accomplish anything.

I'm writting about so I am thinking about it. :laugh: but not to hard.

Exactly...in one ear and out the other, as it were...but there none-the-less.

Why does everyone seem to think that admitting that a thought has crossed their minds means that they've devoted some serious contemplation to it? If you've ever heard the word "sucicide" you've thought about it...that's how our minds work...there is no choice there. But for some reason there are always certain people who seem to think that admitting that fact is a sign of weakness, or that it's the same as saying that they want to die...it isn't. You can't help the things that go thru your head, all you can do is decide whether to let it go, or consciously dwell on it...thoughts of suicide cross my mind (I'll admit it, I'm not a coward)...but I don't want to die, so I don't dwell...I let them go. Doesn't change the fact that they were there...I just didn't let them take up residence. lol

Ryu, my friend, you claim to be enlightened, resurrected, but in reality... You have lost something without gaining anything.

You know, if you cut a man's hand off, the body without the hand becomes the whole. But, we still feel as though something is missing.

I wonder if your hand has been cut off, and you forgot it was ever there.

For those who have let suicide dwell in their minds and hearts, it is not the suicide you should be looking at.

When an emotional trauma has occurred, you lie to yourself, and you "come to terms" with it all. But then the truth of the matter is, that just when you think you've crossed that safety line of time or healing....guess who's there to greet you again.

Without the details, there was a point when that razor just wouldn't cut deep enough and my lungs kept fighting for air no matter how hard I willed them not too. But one person kept caring so much that it saved my life.

Since then, I have accepted the details, and I live by one philosophy when it comes to the demons inside me. The past just doesn't matter. And I cling to that statement like my personal mantra.

But I would be lying to you if I said it didn't affect everything single part of my life. So yes, I once tried to expire early. Actually, I tried a few times. And yes, I have become a better person, and have healed those wounds. But when something happens that you view as so extreme you can't bear to live anymore? That thing will never go away. And it will affect you everyday.

So everyday is a struggle and a fight. And you have to accept that. You will never feel less hurt by whatever happened and you will never forget it. But you can face it, and you can rise above it. Those demons may never go away, but when you find the courage and the strength to beat them into submission, they can never be used against you again.

I am of the opinion that suicide is against the Jedi code. Within the Code, there is no Death, there is the Force, I believe exists a desire to preserve life where it can be. To take one's own life is against the desire to preserve life within our power to do so. It denies the world of our existance, our service and ourselves. It causes harm to the ones we love and who love us. This just my opinion. MTFBWY.

I don't want to make this into a debate on the code, but I agree with you Cyrano in a way.

The code certainly identifies the left side as "illusion". Suicide is, therefore, a kind of illusion just as death is.

In other words, you aren't solving anything at all.

cyranodb wrote: I am of the opinion that suicide is against the Jedi code. Within the Code, there is no Death, there is the Force, I believe exists a desire to preserve life where it can be. To take one's own life is against the desire to preserve life within our power to do so. It denies the world of our existance, our service and ourselves. It causes harm to the ones we love and who love us. This just my opinion. MTFBWY.

Suicide is not death. It is merely the ending of ones current Form. It is a transformation. There is no Death, truly. We are unable to "take" our own life because we ARE Life. Whether we are in this human form or not, we are still Life. It is the human attachment to forms that causes the act of suicide to be frowned upon.

MTFBYAAF

Ah, existentialism. Not a fan.

"don't be sad little jimmy, your mom's not really gone, in fact, she was never really here... and neither are you! Don't be sad, those feelings aren't real anyway, have a bland and otherwise meaningless illusionary day!"