Five Questions for Jedi Knights

FraterDavid wrote: There were no breast implants. In short, the world was brutal, cruel, and dark.

:lol:

Sorry, could not resist.

I think originally in Europe at the time it was believed the world was in a constant state of spiritual struggle, and the Knights were dedicated to this by oath until death - to defend the church and the faithful. Then they slowly transformed into what is now the commissioned officer. That is how I see it, but I could be wrong as my European history is less then ideal.

In religious terms; dedicating themselves to a particular cause till death is relevant, but beyond that it becomes impractical, and so a Knighthood is mostly honorary and ceremonial to recognize some achievement by an authority, but....

..... a Jedi Knighthood is a lifetime commitment of spiritual and social commitment, according to the orders of the particular organization. This seems much more 'true' to the term, then revitalizing some concept of perpetual struggle between light and dark. I think society has grown up enough to realize that's a fear induced illusion experienced by the natural reaction to danger or intimidation (unless its real!?).

I'd like to start by answering these questions. It'll be my ante onto the table. I'll get to the meat of what I'd like to convey following.

SoulSeeker wrote: Now keeping all this in mind, my question for Jedi is: do you consider yourself a knight? If so, do you also consider yourself an expert S.A.S. soldier, or a member of Black Ops, or some other kind of expert in warfare who has truly earned the title?

A knight? Yes. Absolutely. That is exactly what I see when I look into my heart. I am a professional warrior and have been my entire adult life. I studied warriors and their ethos long prior to that and continue to do so. For me it is not a job, but a calling, a responsibility, and an identity down to the core. I will continue this existence as long as I can. If you would like more from me on this, PM me.

All that said...I am not a Jedi Knight. Learn To Know is. Wescli Wardest is. Akkarin, V-Tog and Jestor are. All of my friends whom I respect and cherish that have been recognized by the Council are. I been not been recognized as a Jedi Knight within the Temple and I humbly accept that. More on that later.

SoulSeeker wrote: My second question for Jedi is: if you consider yourself a knight, what act of valour on the battle-field caused you to be knighted? Or what intense, extreme, rigorous, professional military training did you have to work through before earning that title?

PM me if you're interested.

SoulSeeker wrote: My third question for Jedi is: if you answered "yes" to the first question (you're a knight) and "no" to the second (you have no experience on the battle-field and have never fought for your king, country or church), do you consider your claiming the title of "knight" as disrespectful to those true knights of old Britain and why/why not? After all, to claim to be an "S.A.S." or something else would be seen by many as disrespectul to the respective national army, and saying something like that at their official ceremonies can land you in jail with some pretty hefty fines.

N/A

SoulSeeker wrote: My fourth question for Jedi is: is your title of knight, in your own personal opinion, equal to the traditional title of knight? Or is it superior to the traditional knighthood of Britain, or is it inferior, or would you rather not consider it?

I consider the titles similar in principle, but different in application.

SoulSeeker wrote: "Knight" is an ancient and honourable title. Have you taken due care and consideration to its history and tradition before applying it to yourself?

Yes. But I still aspire to Jedi Knight here at Temple of the Jedi Order because I think what it implies is worth pursuing.


Now on to other things.


I believe Jedi aren't made...they're found. Ultimately we are the ones responsible for uncovering the Jedi within, and no other. Others may see and recognize it, though. The foundation of the Order isn't combat, diplomacy, or feats of extra-sensory perception. A Jedi's foundation is a subtle blend of spirituality and philosophy expressed in life. Each of us has interpretations of the various codes we learn about here. A Jedi takes those interpretations and transfers them. Applies them to his undertakings - whatever those may be. I recognize a 'Knight' as one who has a very solid understanding of the lessons taught by the Temple and has a high degree of fidelity in application. That's where knighthood comes from...not simply feats of arms or charging towards an enemy. Those are just signs and symptoms of one manifestation among many. It's about seeing, understanding, and freely choosing a way of life based on Jedi principles...and having the courage and discipline to see that choice through. To 'serve' the code. That's something I would wager a European knight or feudal Japanese Samurai could get behind. How that choice, that SERVICE manifests itself will be as various as each of us. No less a Jedi. No less a knight.

I think I'll be PMing you Reacher on that second question if you have no objections...


You have grabbed my interest....

Reacher....

In gonna try, but, I don't think I'm going to read or hear anything today that will resonate with me like this....

Reacher wrote: I believe Jedi aren't made...they're found. Ultimately we are the ones responsible for uncovering the Jedi within, and no other. Others may see and recognize it, though.

Edit to remove words that were not the focus of my comment...

Knighting doesn't simply mean that you have something to do with combat. I know plenty of people that have knightings. Jediism would me more akin to Honorific Knighting than militaristic. Sure this happened afterwards, but the evolution took place in the same area it originated and long before our lifetimes.

So no, I don't think it is a form of disrespect.

Alright, now to answer the question here (I've read a little more in depth, so it seems that I'm not the only one that brought up the history of knightings- glad to see that I'm not the only one that made the point, in 5 pages).

I have been a part of the community for 10 years going on 11 come April. Before I received my knighthood at Force Academy, I was in their for 6 years and had completed a tour to Iraq as an MP guarding a detainee facility and making sure that my fellow soldiers adhered to Geneva Convention laws (not as easy as you would think it is, because a lot of them didn't know all of the laws- subtle things like "Pork can't touch the plate at all", "Detainees can ONLY clean up areas that are detainee areas, we have to clean up everything else", etc). I did not see outside the wire, so no actual combat involved there- just working as a corrections soldier in a combat zone for 14 months.

I had training from both the FA and in the military (which really helped me understand the Jedi Path more intimately).

You mentioned that being a knight took years. Well, here's the thing, technically you could say my training began the moment I got into an actual school (elementary) and was completed by the time I turned 23. I began learning the path itself at the age of 16 (just before I was 17), until 23 when it was felt I had completed my training and should be moved up to the next level.

During the time frame you are speaking of, a lot of the education which took place was an apprenticeship. Knighthood was pretty much an apprenticeship. Today we get a variety of training in school which prepares us for life, and then afterwards we train the rest of what we need for specific careers. Most of the training we have prepares us for that moment when we go into the workforce to choose whatever it is we want to do.

So yes, I've been training to become a knight since I was 4 (Head Start), just didn't know for what until I was 17 (which happens to also be the age I joined the Army).

I just wanted to point out something that I haven't seen get mentioned yet...

4 world recognized knights in modern society who were not knighted for service on a battlefield.

Bono
Sean Connery
Mick Jagger
Elton John

In Jediism the title is given by the Council and not necessarily a monarch as was traditional, but it is still given for service to the order, based on the taking of vows, completing studies and learning to live by a certain code of conduct. In my eyes that makes a Jedi Knight just as close to being a Knights Templar as the "The Most Noble Order of the Garter", a Chivalric Order founded only 41 years after the Knights Templar disbanded. And probably more so than the 3 singers and an actor that currently hold the title of Knight.

Oh and FraterDavid...that was epic, brother!

Reacher wrote:
A knight? Yes. Absolutely. That is exactly what I see when I look into my heart.

Hitler also looked into his heart and saw a knight there, because he spent his life believing he was doing the right thing for the "greater good"; is your own view of yourself, then, something that can be trusted? If so, why?

Reacher wrote: I am a professional warrior and have been my entire adult life.

How many wars have you fought in?

Reacher wrote:

SoulSeeker wrote: My second question for Jedi is: if you consider yourself a knight, what act of valour on the battle-field caused you to be knighted? Or what intense, extreme, rigorous, professional military training did you have to work through before earning that title?

PM me if you're interested.

Err... no. I did post the questions publically so that everyone could share each other's views. If you're interested in answering the questions at all I don't think it's too much to ask that you do so where they were actually posted.

Reacher wrote: N/A

Lol! :laugh:

Reacher wrote:

SoulSeeker wrote: My fourth question for Jedi is: is your title of knight, in your own personal opinion, equal to the traditional title of knight? Or is it superior to the traditional knighthood of Britain, or is it inferior, or would you rather not consider it?

I consider the titles similar in principle, but different in application.

I disagree, but do explain what you mean.

Reacher wrote:

SoulSeeker wrote: "Knight" is an ancient and honourable title. Have you taken due care and consideration to its history and tradition before applying it to yourself?

Yes.

Did you know that most here view "knight" as something to aspire to and, in my conversations with them, haven't dared apply the name to themselves? Certainly not as readily as you do, though they might apply it to others. From my humble perspective, the one who hesitates to take on that name is more knightly than the one who goes around 100% confident that they have the heart of a true knight, and doesn't lose a moment in saying so to all who will hear.

Reacher wrote: Now on to other things.

I believe Jedi aren't made...they're found. Ultimately we are the ones responsible for uncovering the Jedi within, and no other.

I disagree. A Jedi may well be made rather than found if someone is raised as one. And it may not always necessarily be the individual who was responsible for uncovering it when it was found.

Reacher wrote: That's where knighthood comes from...not simply feats of arms or charging towards an enemy.

While I understand what you're getting at, and I don't necessarily discount it as false, I should point out that line of thinking could easily serve to discredit a knight. Let me explain: the family members of a dead man think of him as a "knight", when asked they respond that he was an honourable soldier who fought for his country, was captured and asked for information that would endanger the citizens of said country, and died under torture refusing to give any info, for the sake of his family and nation.
Another character also believes he is knightly: a delinquent who believes he has "knighthood" because he studied a bit of philosophy in highschool. He follows your line of logic, that because he applies his philosophy and spirituality in his life, which is spent never bothering to get a job, leeching off of his parents and smoking marijuana. "But I apply my philosophical views to life," he says, "so I'm still a knight."

Yes, "knighthood" as a concept isn't *completely* limited soley to feats of honour on a battlefield, but by your logic the above two characters would both be "knights". Realistically, one is a knight and the other is not- however "special" the delinquent might feel about himself.

Reacher wrote: To 'serve' the code. That's something I would wager a European knight or feudal Japanese Samurai could get behind. How that choice, that SERVICE manifests itself will be as various as each of us. No less a Jedi. No less a knight.

Except that true samurai and knights served a dangerous code which *required* feats of bravery, whereas the same is not true of Jediism code or, the code of, say, waking up and going to work everyday. They're not unnoble, but there's no reason to call them "knightly" or "warrior-like"... unless you want to say it's because it's about "combating bad emotions".

I have not read the entire thread but I know the main idea behind it.

How many wars have you fought in?

Wars are not the best thing humans do. So is it a sign of noble behavior to fight in wars, to bring terror and fear to others or even kill them?

Maybe it was that way in earlier times but the world has changed, we have changed. Today there are more valuable things than fighting against an enemy with violence.
As it was often said before, the requirements for being knighted has changed, too, in the world. Now the service for the community is honored.

SoulSeeker wrote:

Reacher wrote:
A knight? Yes. Absolutely. That is exactly what I see when I look into my heart.

Hitler also looked into his heart and saw a knight there, because he spent his life believing he was doing the right thing for the "greater good"; is your own view of yourself, then, something that can be trusted? If so, why?

Reacher wrote: I am a professional warrior and have been my entire adult life.

How many wars have you fought in?

Reacher wrote:

SoulSeeker wrote: My second question for Jedi is: if you consider yourself a knight, what act of valour on the battle-field caused you to be knighted? Or what intense, extreme, rigorous, professional military training did you have to work through before earning that title?

PM me if you're interested.

Err... no. I did post the questions publically so that everyone could share each other's views. If you're interested in answering the questions at all I don't think it's too much to ask that you do so where they were actually posted.

Reacher wrote: N/A

Lol! :laugh:

Reacher wrote:

SoulSeeker wrote: My fourth question for Jedi is: is your title of knight, in your own personal opinion, equal to the traditional title of knight? Or is it superior to the traditional knighthood of Britain, or is it inferior, or would you rather not consider it?

I consider the titles similar in principle, but different in application.

I disagree, but do explain what you mean.

SoulSeeker, you are getting close to being... something....\

We answer your question, and you keep saying why, why, why....

You have ask more questions, and tried to tear apart of our replies, than you have actually made statements, and tried to make a stand...

I understand these could be, and may be legit questions...

But, we state something, and instead of saying much of value, you keep questioning, until we say something you want to leap on, and then you attempt a rebuttal...

So, I just saying, nicely, that is there a reason for your inccessant questioning?

If it is to find out who you are, you will never do it by asking us who we are, you must look within...

And, if its to find out who we are, there is not enough time in a lifetime to tell you...

The Socratic questioning method you are going by, does test ones patience, and does eventually get troll like...

Just sayin'