Masculinity as a Mental health issue

Sorry, but neither of those articles make the point that this sort of education led to a marked increase in the divide. The second looks only at ratings of the divide and of literacy.

And the first...

Well. Certainly doesn't make that point, nor does it carry any sort of an unbiased view.

It is a development that can partly be explained by technological and economic changes - the shift to a post-industrial service economy, the introduction of technical aids that lighten household work, the invention and the spreading of contraceptives - but which has also been deliberately stimulated from various sources. In connection with this, changing views on how men and women behave towards each other and the manners became more egalitarian (Wouters2005). Men lost power and privileges. In their profession they had to tolerate more and more women as equals beside them or, worse still, recognize them as superior. In their families they could less and less take their heads and claim traditional rights as husbands ('rape in marriage' was punishable, physical violence led faster to separation). If they still had feelings of superiority towards women, they could show them less and less and apply them in their dealings with them. Equality between men and women became increasingly the prevailing moral principle. It is obvious that this development has led to confusion, frustration and resistance among many men. Beliefs about what a 'real man' is supposed to be have become more unclear. Still 'masculinity' is associated with strength, courage and fortitude, still some men are sometimes admired for these qualities, but as6 | Sociology 3 [2007] 1This article from Sociology is published by Boom Lemma publishers and is intended for the University of Amsterdam as guiding ideals to distinguish themselves from women, seem to have dismissed them. Has that not led to serious identity problems, a 'crisis of masculinity'? That is what several authors claim. For some, this crisis is a frustrated feminists and their feeble masculine followers created wrongdoing, which must be undone as soon as possible: men must regain their true masculinity, claim their time-honored rights and again be daring to be dominant, to the happiness of both themselves and the women henheen.

One could argue that the first article makes an excellent point of establishing why the program is necessary.
Sex is not a right and when a woman, any woman, even a wife, says no, it is rape.
Physical violence is not a right.
Equality is a moral principle.
Feminists aren't frustrated and men who identify as feminists aren't feeble.
And finally... Not all males are happy in the dominant box, nor are all females happy in the submissive one.

Yes. Just a few paragraphs make an excellent point for why this kind of program isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

Kehta Nier wrote: Sorry, but neither of those articles make the point that this sort of education led to a marked increase in the divide. The second looks only at ratings of the divide and of literacy.

And the first...

Well. Certainly doesn't make that point, nor does it carry any sort of an unbiased view.

It is a development that can partly be explained by technological and economic changes - the shift to a post-industrial service economy, the introduction of technical aids that lighten household work, the invention and the spreading of contraceptives - but which has also been deliberately stimulated from various sources. In connection with this, changing views on how men and women behave towards each other and the manners became more egalitarian (Wouters2005). Men lost power and privileges. In their profession they had to tolerate more and more women as equals beside them or, worse still, recognize them as superior. In their families they could less and less take their heads and claim traditional rights as husbands ('rape in marriage' was punishable, physical violence led faster to separation). If they still had feelings of superiority towards women, they could show them less and less and apply them in their dealings with them. Equality between men and women became increasingly the prevailing moral principle. It is obvious that this development has led to confusion, frustration and resistance among many men. Beliefs about what a 'real man' is supposed to be have become more unclear. Still 'masculinity' is associated with strength, courage and fortitude, still some men are sometimes admired for these qualities, but as6 | Sociology 3 [2007] 1This article from Sociology is published by Boom Lemma publishers and is intended for the University of Amsterdam as guiding ideals to distinguish themselves from women, seem to have dismissed them. Has that not led to serious identity problems, a 'crisis of masculinity'? That is what several authors claim. For some, this crisis is a frustrated feminists and their feeble masculine followers created wrongdoing, which must be undone as soon as possible: men must regain their true masculinity, claim their time-honored rights and again be daring to be dominant, to the happiness of both themselves and the women henheen.

One could argue that the first article makes an excellent point of establishing why the program is necessary.
Sex is not a right and when a woman, any woman, even a wife, says no, it is rape.
Physical violence is not a right.
Equality is a moral principle.
Feminists aren't frustrated and men who identify as feminists aren't feeble.
And finally... Not all males are happy in the dominant box, nor are all females happy in the submissive one.

Yes. Just a few paragraphs make an excellent point for why this kind of program isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

Sure and that is why they are terminated here , to connect rape to masculinity is sickening , rape is power driven and to say rape is masculin is just completely beside the point. No = No for everyone.

And no one said you had to choose a box , when these experiments were conducted in the Netherlands it was noticed that anxiety went up , not down. That confusion went up, not down. That even thought the INTEND was good , and maybe would work in another culture , it does not for the Dutch.

And i strongly doubt that these experiments will give different results in the States

Your article does not cite any experiments or studies, only other articles that say the same as it- that “men must regain their time honored rights”. As I said before, if this article is any indication, then programs like this are a good thing.

Kehta Nier wrote: Your article does not cite any experiments or studies, only other articles that say the same as it- that “men must regain their time honored rights”. As I said before, if this article is any indication, then programs like this are a good thing.

Then the only thing for now is to agree to disagree...i really think its a bad idea

This is a clip we show in the Netherlands , maybe you understand where i am coming from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BVh9Sr_aQs

Apparently there are about 250k taxi drivers in the USA.

When we get driverless cars, they'll all have to come up with weird jobs to justify their existence too.


Edit: Originally my main beef wasn't with the philosophy of masculinity as mental health issue, because I just don't care what people do with their minds in their own time, it was with it being an industry.


Having clicked (possibly baited) around that PJ website for a few articles, my beef is now with that website, and with my beloved Serenity for being partly responsible for minutes of my life being stolen by those monosynaptic cave dwellers.

Jeans 15 times stronger than steel?!?! What!!!!

I would definitely recommend giving those bulletpoints I quoted another look through. I don’t think the program has anything to say about the generic rough and tumble and tree climbing and exploration of childhood being a bad thing.

I can read them until i want to scratch my eyes out, these experiments were conducted and they were a failure, i wish them good luck in the US

Hey, I love ballet!!!! And had seasons passes for several years while I could be bothered the hour drive in and out to watch it. It's the most fictional Jedi-esk display of timing, movement and strength you can you can watch, and they use swords often as well.

Plus mental health is not a negative thing. Mental disease could be said to be, but mental health is an issue everyone should take seriously. We all have some measure of mental health, whether its good, bad or changing too fast to know :silly:

The idea should probably be about defining appropriate existence of strength in a persons character - as its too often tied into self image which most easily translates across to inter-personality. And its that which seems to manifest as exertion of authority and testing of each other. Even the idea that we are 'strong' is a relative thing, as it develops from the natural process of defining ourselves by comparison with other-selves around us.

And the less a person has going for them in other areas, the more they might rely on that strength to feel worth anything at all.... or have a willingness to exert strength beyond what might be normal in the absence of any real idea.
So things like 'act like a man' can be easily interpreted as 'be strong' as a normal form of self for men. Which is really over stating the importance of the impact of testosterone.... something which is a big element in a guys life without society dramatizing it. Men have like over 10 times the amount as women AFAIK, ten times is a big difference - as its a bit like gunpowder, it is useful for its purpose but a bit of overkill the rest of the time.

How this might become a degradation on a persons mental health is that society and personal relationships do not really have a place for it in the same way that it is often pushed into guys as the male standard. It had great importance in hunter gather type societies, slightly more in farming societies, slightly less in industrial societies, but significantly less in post industrial technological societies.

But it's not that men have less of a place, its just the mischaraterisation of men as being about exaggerating their strength advantage as their role in society and therefore the best path for their mental health. Though the individual adult must take responsibility for their actions and so IMO it's no-one's fault at the end of the day except for the the individual bloke doing it, but IMO its why the jails are full of blokes and not a 50/50 mix and a lot of normal acting guys are really quite nasty b@5tards truth be told.... deep down resentment of not being stronger and so taking whatever avenue of power they can get their hands on so they can squeeze it to death to prove to themselves their own self worth :S

A linked page from the OP to the Uni about it is;
https://cmhc.utexas.edu/vav/vav_masculinut_restrictive.html

Not something I'd heard of before, but it makes sense to my Buddhist sentimentality..... but what do I know, apparently that murderer in Toronto the other day went driving into people in his rented van because he was something called an 'incel' and wanted to kill 'stacys' and 'chads'. Unfortunately it is evident that distorted masculinity does have a place in the mental illness fields.

Yed Adder ...Distorted masculinity....anything distorted could be seen as a mental health issue.