Ramblings of a Security Officer

Senan, speaking as someone who has been in a similar position as a Deputy Master, I appreciate your dedication to this and your remarks here. It's not an easy job, for so many reasons, but it is a necessary one.

Quite frankly, I personally cannot justify taking time and energy away from other work to put it into any group that does not show the willingness to set and enforce a reasonably high standard of courteous and professional behavior from its membership - whether it's a spiritual organization or my chosen local bar. That's my own individual rule of life, battle tested and hard won, and I choose all my activities based on it so that at the end of my time on this earth in this particular incarnation, I can be satisfied that I put my talents and energy to good purpose.

While I fully agree that one does not have to follow the TOTJO version of things to be a Jedi, the purpose and core mission of this particular organization is what separates it from all other with similar themes and/or focus. It's great that TOTJO has been hospitable enough to serve as a general gathering place for Jedi from many different paths and perspectives. But there's a balance point - if the core purpose is regarded too much as "optional," then those who join in based on what it describes risk finding their time and energy wasted by a false advertisement. That is the reality of organizational work and life. It's not creating an "evil empire" to have basic rules for participation, and to see that they are fairly enforced. It's what every other org doing serious work together has to do to creative a productive environment that doesn't burn out and drive off volunteers. I see nothing in points 1-5 that I can't abide by and agree with despite any difference between my personal views/interpretations and the beliefs outlined in the "Doctrine" section, and I've seen nothing out of you in the time that I've been here that would make me not trust your intent and sense of justice in applying them. Moderators have to make tough calls, and sometimes the most compassionate choice is to address the serious problems head on, rather than allowing the same destructive patterns to keep playing out over and over.

I realize that there are a lot of people that I've come to very much respect working on improving the communication, finding the balance in debates, and sorting out an obviously troubled history of interactions. I'm willing to give it time to see how the new efforts take hold, and to do my part as a participant to find my own ways to contribute to that effort. So you have my support...as well as my sympathy.

Inspiring something vs instilling fear into something. Either way this should be a wake up for the Temple. Taking action is better than not taking any action in this instance I believe.

Consequences of each little action or comment will add up and drown us if not cared for. They say you cannot force someone to do what is right but you can teach them to do what is right. Like a loving parent guiding a child to make the correct decision. The parent must also let the child grow naturally. Letting his/her natural talents grow but also teach them your set of skills. Accept them for there mistakes but challenge them to improve.

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

May the Force guide you to making your choices.

TopHat wrote: They say you cannot force someone to do what is right but you can teach them to do what is right.

May the Force guide you to making your choices.

Can you define for me what is right action and what is wrong action? Is there some universal standard to which you ascribe or have proof of? For example in the original thread that this thread was spawned in response to, I raised points that drew some contention. Was my action wrong action or right action according to "the Force" that you imbue with the power to guide me?

Kyrin,

What I believe (my opinion until I have folks who will agree with me) is that what is classified as the right decision is the decision that is needed for the circumstance that is or has occurred. Even if we do not like what has to happen the right decision should still be made.

Example: You are suppose to be 150lbs but you are 200lbs (basically you are unhealthy). The doctor tells you that you need to work on getting back to that 150lbs if you do not serious health issues will arise. Now, the decision that is needed if you want to live longer is to get your weight back down to 150lbs. But if you want to have all these problems and die early then you should keep gaining more unhealthy.

So, I hope this helps you understand my paradigm. What is the right decision(s) that an individual needs to make is considered the right choice if getting fat and dying is needed then it is the right choice (obviously it's not but if it were) then it should happen. Since we I think we all would agree that being the correct weight and being healthy is what is needed in order not to have healthy issues then listening to the doctor is the right choice. Hopefully this answers your question. Please let me know if you have any questions I am here for you. Thank you!

Tophat,

So from your perspective there is only one right choice when it comes to the person that is overweight, and that right choice is to lose weight right? But what I think you fail to take into consideration is a myriad of other factors that might influence this in such a way that it might become the wrong choice.

What if the person that is 200 pounds is happier at 200 pounds? By his thinking, he can eat what he wants and does not have to kill himself exercising and go through all that suffering of dieting. He may live a few years less but to his mind living a few years longer in agony is not better than losing a few years but being happy.

What this implies is that right or wrong choice is a matter of subjective opinion, not an empirical absolute. At that point the contention for right or wrong goes away completely, just as the contention for good or evil goes away and we are left simply with choice that precipitates action and then the acceptance of the consequences of that action.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: What this implies is that right or wrong choice is a matter of subjective opinion, not an empirical absolute. At that point the contention for right or wrong goes away completely, just as the contention for good or evil goes away and we are left simply with choice that precipitates action and then the acceptance of the consequences of that action.

After reading you, I am SO getting a donut today. :laugh:

Senan, thank you for posting this. Ironically, (if this is the right word for it) the very issues you are talking about are wide spread through out our culture any way as humans. I see it everyday at work (education system). Please don't say you failed us, you didn't.
1. you are human.
2. Failure in the sense that you mean it is in fact a 2 way street.
3. Systems fail. It is the only way societies progress, build, break, rebuild, burn, rebuild, break, rebuild. Nature for that matter too.
4. Trying to figure out how to maintain a level of civility in a somewhat morally ambiguous society is in fact like trying to legislate morality. Morality can not be legislated because in theory, legislation should based on a community's basic minimal moral concepts. Kudos on putting forth a document with some of that spelled out I am excited to read it. But, we all interpret on some level the ideas of this religion differently and unfortunately it involves a constant shifting moral base form individual to individual which makes even a minimal moral behavioral standard hard to establish.

I have been on and off here for a long time, I haven't commented on much choosing to stay quiet on most things I do read, because, I have been slowly trying to understand how to find which battles to fight and how to fight them. All of us the Council, the Knights, and in fact all of us have been fighting many battles, in fact too many and no person is immune from war weariness. To add to that the security officers here get caught in the middle of it all and that means unlike someone like me, you can't just drop your sword and walk away and for that you have my respect and admiration.

As of this point I haven't read what happened and that's the reason I'm writing this now instead of after. The very fact that this thread exists and that I can comment on it, in what I only hope is some truths as seen by an un-involved observer makes me pretty sure I am right about the things above. Manu has a point we need to stop being offended constantly and on the same note we need to stop holding swords of ideology to each others throats. See one of the things I see out side of this temple that I am struggling with hard is that discourse as we modernly define it is the biggest f##king joke of our times. Discourse means listening and speaking. Questioning in the course of discourse is great, but if your questions are pointed to get the results you want, then of course your going to get offended when you do not hear what you want...........Then come the insults and dick moves. Sorry, I went into a ramble here but the road was there back when I was commenting heavily before. I was just kinda hoping it wouldn't keep progressing as I stepped out to fix myself (I am certifiably a Cluster F#$K and perhaps my own stepping away opened that gate further).

I could probably keep spouting tons of stuff off here but I just want to leave it at this.

Anyone who reads this open your mind, I mean really open it, realize that anytime you think of something as a view or ideology you already have predetermined you are automatically going to experience strife. The thing is this isn't pure strife, discussion or anything productive it's literally fighting for the sake of fighting (yes, this is metaphorical and also literal). My brothers, my sisters lay down your swords and grab your shovels it may in fact be time to rebuild and it starts with yourself. Think about what this man has said, imagine the strain in his voice as if this is spoken word.

Peace and Love to all of you,
Kobos

Thank you all for the insightful feedback so far. It is fair and accurate to say that there are some emotional appeals being made in my original post, and the conversation since has really helped me to narrow down which parts of my job as Security Officer should be handled completely objectively based on the rules and when I need to consider my own biases and frustrations before acting. Sometimes (feels like all the time :pinch: ) I will be trapped in those gray areas and I will be forced to make decisions based on my own judgment. Right or wrong, they are my decisions and I will own them.

I still feel the need to focus much more directly on the existing Doctrine and rules of this website while moderating our interactions here. By this, I do not mean that I should suddenly become heavy handed law enforcement, but instead do a better job of educating people about our expectations for appropriate behavior in the first place and making sure people understand why I take the actions I do. It is also important that everyone knows my decisions and actions can always be appealed and overturned by Council. To revisit the Knight analogy one more time, I understand the need for armor and to carry a sword, but I'd really prefer that there is never a need for either. I don't want my interactions here to create suffering. I would much rather be the Knight sitting in my comfortable chair and telling tall tales of battles that are history, not current events.

One more thought to add. I have willingly chosen to make my views and concerns public for all to read and to comment on, but a lot of what I have shared in the original post and will continue to share is based on the struggles I am seeing other officers and Councillors go through as well. Tellahane and I have had many long conversations about trying to properly balance our service to the Temple with our own training while also trying to do what is best for the majority here. It is very hard; sometimes impossible. I understand why his frustrations led him to make the choice he did, and I continue to see my friends on the Council struggle with similar frustrations. In particular, our Pastor Rosalyn, who I respect and admire very much, has been agonizing over the state of our Temple for a long time to the point of losing sleep over it. She and the clergy are here to be our spiritual support, and watching our home spiral into negativity causes a lot more pain for her than many of us realize. She's not only frustrated, but at times sad, angry, disappointed, even defeated. It isn't justified and it weighs heavily on me, but it has helped me understand that I am not only here to provide security for a forum and a Temple, but also do what I can to secure the health and well-being of those I care about. I hope you all can understand that as I move forward, there will be times that I will take actions that might seem to be playing favorites, and you'll probably be right. My motivation may be guided by my personal desire to protect people that mean a lot to me and to this place. At the very least, I will try to be transparent and explain myself when this is the case.

Thank you again for listening, discussing, and taking the time to consider this important issue with me. I remain committed to this Temple and confident that together we will find the best way forward.

Kyrin,

I think you may have missed my point. I'll try to delve a little deeper. Depending on what you NEED is depending on what the situation and what is considered the most beneficial . If you NEED to lose the weight then yes you should do it as it is the right choice. We, as humans, do not make the right choice even if it ends up makes us happy.

Someone presenting a solution with the best benefits to an issue that you are having that you desire to have fixed is required and helpful to the issue. Your choice is either you listen or you don't. What you want to accomplish in the end is pending on your goal if it is to live longer then I would listen, if it is not then do not listen.

So many factors come into play that you or the individual must ponder on and come to a conclusion. The decisions made by Serenity, depending on the situations, he has to face. We all know situations are subject to change and what would be considered right is what would be most beneficial for the situation. Currently, in a humans mind typically something that is beneficial for the situation is the right choice. Hopefully this helped you seen into my paradigm and that you have had the experience of what I would call a Paradigm Shift. I ask you meditate on this and continue to learn from your teacher, keep an open mind my friend.

We've got many choices to make. May the Force guide you.

Senan,

I support your decision. While I cannot choose who my teacher would be honored to study under you. Even more so, once I have been knighted I would not mind studying under you still and learning your philosophies. (I don't mind being schooled )

May the Force be with you always.