Sith Code better for everyday life?

MadHatter wrote: One by definition cannot have passion and peace at the same time.

This, right here, is one of the biggest lies ever told by Jedi. Or Sith, for that matter.

The very definition of the two words contradicts this concept.

Which definitions? There are multiple definitions for both the word "passion" and the word "peace." In fact, if you take personal understanding/definitions into account, there are as many definitions for these words as there are people in the world.

Lykeios wrote:

MadHatter wrote: One by definition cannot have passion and peace at the same time.

This, right here, is one of the biggest lies ever told by Jedi. Or Sith, for that matter.

The very definition of the two words contradicts this concept.

Which definitions? There are multiple definitions for both the word "passion" and the word "peace." In fact, if you take personal understanding/definitions into account, there are as many definitions for these words as there are people in the world.

When it comes to actual emotional or mental states gs which is what is being defined here

Definition of peace

1 :a state of tranquility or quiet: such as
a :freedom from civil disturbance Peace and order were finally restored in the town.
b :a state of security or order within a community provided for by law or custom a breach of the peace
2 :freedom from disquieting or oppressive thoughts or emotions
I have been in perfect peace and contentment —J. H. Newman
3 :harmony in personal relations The sisters are at peace with each other.
4 a :a state or period of mutual concord between governments There was a peace of 50 years before war broke out again.
b :a pact or agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity
offered the possibility of a negotiated peace—New York Times
5 —used interjectionally to ask for silence or calm or as a greeting or farewell
— at peace
:in a state of concord or tranquility The problem was settled and his mind was at peace.

That which I have put in bold are the only possible options that count. Sorry, you don't get to make up definitions to words and try to make it count. Words have a definition and must be used properly. So the word peace is at odds with






Definition of passion

1 often capitalized
a :the sufferings of Christ between the night of the Last Supper and his death
b :an oratorio based on a gospel narrative of the Passion Bach's St. Matthew Passion
2 obsolete :suffering
3 :the state or capacity of being acted on by external agents or forces
moldable and not moldable … and many other passions of matter —Francis Bacon
4 a (1) :emotion his ruling passion is greed (2) passions plural :the emotions as distinguished from reason a study of the passions
b :intense, driving, or overmastering feeling or conviction
with enough passion to make a great poet —W. B. Yeats
c :an outbreak of anger a crime of passion
5 a :ardent affection :love He had never felt such passion for any woman but her.
b :a strong liking or desire for or devotion to some activity, object, or concept a passion for chess a passion for opera
c :sexual desire a look of passion in her face
d :an object of desire or deep interest

Because one cannot be at peace and have intense barely control emotional states as defined above. I'm sorry that is a reality. Words have a meaning and two conflicted states of being cannot coexist.

Hatter,

I seldom disagree with you so this is kinda a first.

Peace and passion can exist in co-harmony. I give you my personal experience as such. I am very passionate about helping other people avoid some of the suffering I caused myself. Now, in my career I am aware of the fact that I cannot stop all students from repeating my own actions, this attachment causes pain. I work at this growing a positive detachment each day however, I still require a certain level of passion to continue. However, this act brings me much peace. I am also very much experiencing a great deal of peace from passing on this knowledge.

Better put (I think) by the definitions you give they can only co-exist as products of one another. Your passion can lead to peace. I would also set that pursuit of peace and harmony within ourselves and within the Force requires a certain amount of passion.

Much love and respect,
Kobos

MadHatter wrote:

Lykeios wrote:

MadHatter wrote: One by definition cannot have passion and peace at the same time.

This, right here, is one of the biggest lies ever told by Jedi. Or Sith, for that matter.

The very definition of the two words contradicts this concept.

Which definitions? There are multiple definitions for both the word "passion" and the word "peace." In fact, if you take personal understanding/definitions into account, there are as many definitions for these words as there are people in the world.

When it comes to actual emotional or mental states gs which is what is being defined here

Definition of peace

1 :a state of tranquility or quiet: such as
2 :freedom from disquieting or oppressive thoughts or emotions
:in a state of concord or tranquility The problem was settled and his mind was at peace.

That which I have put in bold are the only possible options that count. Sorry, you don't get to make up definitions to words and try to make it count. Words have a definition and must be used properly. So the word peace is at odds with

Definition of passion

b :a strong liking or desire for or devotion to some activity, object, or concept a passion for chess a passion for opera


Because one cannot be at peace and have intense barely control emotional states as defined above. I'm sorry that is a reality. Words have a meaning and two conflicted states of being cannot coexist.

That may be your interpretation of those dictionary definitions, it is not mine.

Be snarky about words having meaning all you want. That doesn't change the fact that connotation is a thing. Denotative word meanings only get us so far. Words both denote meaning and connote meaning. You can't win a debate about things as personal as "peace" and "passion" by quoting the dictionary. Sorry, but that's not how it works. That's not how language works and that's not how discussions/debates work.

Even IF we just take the specific denotative definitions you cherry picked and put in bold, I see no inherent conflict between the word "passion" and "peace." You can read that into the definitions if you want, but that meaning isn't actually there. That's your personal interpretation of what the definitions mean. And that's why the connotative value of words matters as much, if not more than, the denotative dictionary definitions of words.

I think the issue here is we are assuming that peace and passion are different things. If you think about emotional states this way you miss out on how connected these feelings truly are. How fickle "how we feel" at any given time really is. I like to see peace and passion as different ways we feel the same emotions. I can find peace and be peaceful following a passion. I can be passionate in sharing peace. Or seeking it. It's not so black and white as the dry words "there is no emotion, there is peace.".

JLSpinner wrote: I think the issue here is we are assuming that peace and passion are different things. If you think about emotional states this way you miss out on how connected these feelings truly are. How fickle "how we feel" at any given time really is. I like to see peace and passion as different ways we feel the same emotions. I can find peace and be peaceful following a passion. I can be passionate in sharing peace. Or seeking it. It's not so black and white as the dry words "there is no emotion, there is peace.".

I like this.

For instance, I am passionate about my family. That means that all the effort, difficulties and pains I go through, all become a part of my joy... everything falls into nothingness as long as I am serving them.

Lykeios wrote:

MadHatter wrote: One by definition cannot have passion and peace at the same time.

This, right here, is one of the biggest lies ever told by Jedi. Or Sith, for that matter.

You're right. And you're the first person outside of myself across several boards I frequent that seems to have realized it. Lykeios, we could start a revolution.

Think about the painter at his canvas, there is a nuclear storm of chaos and turmoil in his head and heart, and it comes through the brush as a line, a dot, and blob, a smear... it looks like art because it is creation, but it's all part of the process. The destruction that comes from clearing a space gives the ability to create necessitates the destruction to continue creating, and around and around the cycle goes.

There is no peace without utter madness first to define it, there can be no madness that excludes a memory of peace. All harmony returns to discord, all noise returns to quiet. Magnets, pushing, pulling, defining, redefining, tangled into one another like lovers.

To pretend you can have one without its counter is a wasted effort.

I have much passion and much peace . Why can't people find their own balance without being directly told to do so?
As far as me is concerned , my goal is seeking ... seek and find. Haven't let me down yet. The results CAN ...but I choose to move past that. I happen to like being Jedi though . It is my tool for my every day use. ( I'm pretty good at it too, after all the practice )

There is no peace without utter madness first to define it, there can be no madness that excludes a memory of peace. All harmony returns to discord, all noise returns to quiet. Magnets, pushing, pulling, defining, redefining, tangled into one another like lovers.

....yes

In a sort of....if I wasn't a part of the painting....kinda way.

Unfortunately, we are all a part of the painting, we are not the artist, or the canvas, we are the mess, so whether at any point in time we are a splash of colour, raised ridges of paint, untouched canvas, or intentional white space, or all of the above is, among other things, impossible for us to see for ourselves.


I couldn't find a good video of a spinning top going from perfect balanced spin to collapse - which no apparent change in mass or form.


Instead, most of us probably drive, so take a moment to consider the noise-maker in the (probably) front of your car.

It has between 3 and 8 pistons, throwing themselves about at the whims of explosions. Thousands per minute.

Somehow, the whole damn thing doesn't tear itself in half, because despite the chaos, the raw the power, the passion, if you will - there is balance, there is control, there is (if you'll allow me) peace

JamesSand wrote: Unfortunately, we are all a part of the painting, we are not the artist, or the canvas, we are the mess, so whether at any point in time we are a splash of colour, raised ridges of paint, untouched canvas, or intentional white space, or all of the above is, among other things, impossible for us to see for ourselves.

Your (and most people's) tendency to build mountains on the belief that you are helpless nonactor in your own experience is one of your more offputting traits, James... but this isn't about what philosophical decision we've each made about who owns our world, so I'll let it go with that.

Your response really had nothing to do with the point behind my metaphor. Not upset, just offering a suggestion to reread.