What would help the Temple Be A Better Place? Suggestions please...

Thank you Rosalyn J and Tzb for your clarifications of the situation, I'm glad you will bring it up Rosalyn

What would help TOTJO become a better place?

That is simple more topless pictures of Hannigan.

Aside from that my personal view is simple. People should be more concerned with talking with others and less concerned about valuing what a person says because of the rank or position that person has here at totjo. There are too many politics and not enough discussions on concepts as it pertains to being a Jedi in the real world. A last thing I would say is bring back Master War Beauty. When she was at totjo things were much more productive then they seem to have become.

Keep in mind these are my opinions not my facts so take them or leave them, choose and act.

Yugen wrote:
3. Trash the favoritism
There is a favoritism on TOTJO, and if you deny it then you haven't experienced it yourself. Some people being elevated and receive feedback other novices could only dream of. Don't say that there isn't content to feedback, there is. Respond equally to all novices or don't reply at all.

Can you describe this more? On what is the favoritism based?

I don't find that I'm concerned with the technicalities of this temple (not that they are ultimately unimportant). I don't believe they are at the heart of what can make it better or worse where it really counts.

I think it's more the disposition of us that is.

And not "those people in council/clergy/knights/etc, but not me". No. It's ourselves, including me.

I wonder, if we all tried to constructively point our personal concerns and judgments about other people in the temple (and outside of it) toward ourselves to acknowledge the things inside of us that reflect (and even connect) what we are concluding and casting on each other, what kind of effect that would have on the temple as a whole, its politics, its ranking structure, its education system, its relations with other jedi communities and so on... (when reading above don't think of someone else who ought to do that, let's imagine ourselves with it)

Of course, not everyone is at that place yet, and I don't think there will ever be a time when everyone at the same time can be...

So perhaps, among the technical stuff being suggested, we also apply some importance on those who are at that stage being able to sincerely pardon those of us who are not, and to be an example of what that looks like... what it means.

Less seriousness, more sincerity (and more humour)

Less doubt, more trust.

Less ego, more humility.

Less jadedness, more inspiration.

Less debate, more dialogue.

Less preaching, more storytelling.

Less conclusion, more curiosity.

And I know this isn't such a practical answer. But that is probably why it can be important to consider.

It is the phantoms of our own feelings and thoughts that slip by us to the point we convince ourselves they aren't even there, always pulling the strings attached to everything else that is.

There is a favoritism on TOTJO, and if you deny it then you haven't experienced it yourself. Some people being elevated and receive feedback other novices could only dream of. Don't say that there isn't content to feedback, there is. Respond equally to all novices or don't reply at all.

Is this a serious request?

Respond equally to all novices or don't reply at all.

Is this a serious request?

Probably in the heat of the moment...


Anyway, are Knights covered under a State, Industry or Federal award for pay and conditions?

According to the occasional runaways they're under the pre-civil war scheme. Basically we don't pay them and they work every hour of every day.

I am thankful with what we have. Though I might have an idea.. what if there was a cooking section on the forums? :woohoo: Everyone could post their most enjoyable recipes in one of the spesific sub sections and when you feel hungry you can take your phone to the kitchen to search out something to make.. Or look on the PC, as I do not use my smartphone.. much, something like that? :blush:

The changes and plans that I have seen across the Temple lately are lovely, lets not forget that too!

I saw this up the thread to change the IP a little bit. For someone like me that have english as my second language it is kinda hard to fully understand Lesson 1 and 2 in the IP. I began two years ago on the IP and left because the IP wasn't interesting to me when I didn't understand it, and I think that drives many people away from the temple. Switch the IP around so you begin writing about Jediism, other religions and the "easy" stuff at first. Then the current lesson 1 and 2 can be like "the hard ending of the schoolyear with all the exams".

Vigebo wrote: I saw this up the thread to change the IP a little bit. For someone like me that have english as my second language it is kinda hard to fully understand Lesson 1 and 2 in the IP. I began two years ago on the IP and left because the IP wasn't interesting to me when I didn't understand it, and I think that drives many people away from the temple. Switch the IP around so you begin writing about Jediism, other religions and the "easy" stuff at first. Then the current lesson 1 and 2 can be like "the hard ending of the schoolyear with all the exams".

The IP can be done in any order you wish. There is no requirement to do them in order.

I liked Manu response on the 2 pg. of this discussion and it was thoroughly written and clear. But, The issue I see is that sending out a packet of material for the entire IP could be very expensive not only for TOTJO to send to people who might not finish the IP but, it could be expensive to send to all the Knights to check the IP to see that it's completed and correct. As I think it would be awesome to have a collection to see all your work I was once told by Alexander Orion that if I decided at one point to leave (due to some unforeseen things during that time) he would be happy to send my entire IP in a pdf. file for me to have on my personal computer which, I thought was wonderful.

I think the IP is memorable I know I was in tears once it was completed and I was given an Apprenticeship shortly after. I enjoyed doing the IP.

What do I think would help the temple be a better place?

Like said before more accountability from the Council. I liked the idea of jedi serving "terms" on the council and other operations within TOTJO. It gives the temple fresh feeling and avoid council members from being burnt out. I don't want it just to be about my needs but, also the council members to know that we care about them as well and their needs as Jedi.

Sven One wrote: What do I think would help the temple be a better place?

Like said before more accountability from the Council. I liked the idea of jedi serving "terms" on the council and other operations within TOTJO. It gives the temple fresh feeling and avoid council members from being burnt out. I don't want it just to be about my needs but, also the council members to know that we care about them as well and their needs as Jedi.

This is good input, Sven. Accountability and transparency are very important to the new Advisory Knights and the Council and we will be able to share exactly what we are working on in Council and what the progress is. We will also be discussing terms soon, and working out a fair way to represent the wider membership so everyone can feel good about the work being done here and hopefully prevent burnout. More to come on this.

Yugen wrote: This is more about curriculum than the temple itself.. but here I go

1. Make the Initiate's programme more about practical application than cryptic messages or supposed "between the lines" meaning
As much as I enjoy Alan Watts or Joseph Campbell, I have struggled to put together entries on every part and chapter of their materials, and while I understand that it gives an understanding of the works Jediism is based upon, only later does the Initiate's programme touch on Jediism itself and a little on actual practical application. Theory is only useful if it can be put into application, one way or another. I will touch on youths later, but believe me, being a young person and trying to write an elaborate essay on how the world is your body can prove to be difficult. I'm not saying make it easier, I'm saying make it less cryptic, show what Jediism is and what it is all about rather than hide behind cryptic and mystic messages.

CLASSES:
I'd be very cautions about changing the IP too much. However, I would LOVE the idea of specialization. I think there are general things all Jedi should have to learn in order to call themselves Jedi. And there should be masters that interact with apprentices and give them things to work on to better themselves. However, I think there should be some segmentation; the equivalent of grade school and college. There should be a Jedi "General Studies" curriculum and then "majors" where a person can choose Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel, Jedi Consular, Jedi Sage, etc. (There could be a ceremony/ritual in which one chooses their class similar to the "Divergent" movie).

HOLOCRONS:
If you do this then the IP becomes more fluid and alive because you can constantly expand it into different areas aligned with a particular "class", and you could do that based on interest without burdening those who aren't interest in that particular course of study. And then you can even have levels, like "Level 2 Jedi Consular". Additional knowledge can even be hidden within Jedi "holocrons" where you have to be on a particular path and complete prerequisites in order to get the password you need to get into those materials. The other thing this does it offer some protection/security for advanced Jedi Studies so that this knowledge cannot be abused. I believe this would motivate more people to progress within the IP.

A lot of people seem to have issues with the council. I know the council is trying new things (admirable) and trying to figure out the best way to mitigate some of these issues.

SUBCOUNCIL:
I also think that each "class" of Jedi should have some representation on a rotating secondary or sub-council. The purpose of this group isn't the same as the advisory group that is currently forming. The purpose of this group would be to handle all temple business related to members (like a Community Management group). I think that the main council should focus solely on the business part and creating policies and guidelines that help unify Jediism. Trying to accomplish these things and everything else might be too much stress for one body. And then that same body is the one everyone expects to interact with in some fashion. And that body, may not be able to rotate new blood in because of the knowledge and experience needed to keep the ship afloat. When there is too much anxiety about what's going on at the top, I believe this is an indication that the top needs to delegate more responsibilities outside of itself. And clearly, people are stepping down from positions at a pace that imho reiterates the need for less stress and more delegation.

MISSIONS:
And then I would (from the Council level) task this representative council with creating projects that involve the application of Jediism to real life issues and current events. How are we supporting Green energy and defending against climate change, for example? Maybe the Jedi Guardians come up with the best plan so they get to implement it with the support of the council. And then we could do private (or public) fundraising to help implement these plans. It could be something as simple as building a solar panel and battery setup and then teaching those techniques to any Jedi who is interested in the form of video holocron. A lot of people want to do something and one of the things that give religions legitimacy outside of being a club is an organized conducting of humanitarian work. Everybody can do their own independent acts of goodness. Yes... that's cool and all that. But there's nothing more effective than a united front against a common problem or an organized effort. And there are modern ways of getting around the geographic distance hurdles.

Apologies if this has been mentioned before; I admit to not having read all 18 pages.

I think it'd be really nice if there were broader options for learning methods in the IP. As someone with learning differences it's been really tough going for me even though I love the ideas presented and thinking about what they mean for me and my path.

I'm not sure what this would look like... I've only just now found out that adaptations might be a possibility. Formal seminar/study groups? One on one discussions with Knights about IP lessons they find especially interesting or could be considered to have expertise on? I don't know. I don't know what the possibilities are at all - heck, I barely know the material of the first half of the first lesson, lol!

I just know, I've felt overwhelmed and stymied and like it will take a Herculean effort to get through the IP. Not because of lack of interest, and not because I'm incapable; just because I don't brain in a way that plays well with traditional education models.

ReallyRiver wrote: I think it'd be really nice if there were broader options for learning methods in the IP. As someone with learning differences it's been really tough going for me even though I love the ideas presented and thinking about what they mean for me and my path.

Thank you for raising this issue, River. I admit I don't know off the top of my head to what extent we have implemented accommodations for people who need them. But we absolutely should give this some consideration if we haven't already.

This is exactly the attitude I am talking about: the spirit of serving: what an earth is wrong with that... please enlighten me... I find these forums discursive and without proper aim, clarity, reality and defining collective goals: besides becoming enlightened whom ever said it was just this... its the action in the world that matters not the being whom enacts it...

JEDIONE777 wrote: This is exactly the attitude I am talking about: the spirit of serving: what an earth is wrong with that... please enlighten me... I find these forums discursive and without proper aim, clarity, reality and defining collective goals: besides becoming enlightened whom ever said it was just this... its the action in the world that matters not the being whom enacts it...

What is exactly the attitude that you're talking about?

YOURS...

JEDIONE777 wrote: YOURS...

Could you please be more specific?