Cultural Sensitivity/Appropriation and Anger

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7 years 7 months ago #257814 by Leah Starspectre
I know that this is a topic that's likely rampant in the forums, but it's something that been bugging me all day.

A friend posted an item from the Disney store, a new product for the film "Moana." It's the equivalent of a Hulk suit: padded muscle jumpsuit modeled after one of the main characters, Maui, a demigod. Its got rope necklace and leaf skirt, and Maui's Pacific Island tattoos all over it. He was livid about it as wa EVERYONE ELSE. Except one person who asked "What's the big deal? Isn't this the same as...." Whose comment was instantly deleted for being "ignorant and disrespectful"

I, uncultured white person that I am, am really having a hard time understanding the absolute ire that his post incurred: anger, anger, anger. Everybody getting angry. Righteous, fiery anger. I understand the reason behind it - the wish to ensure that people of different cultures are respected. Where is the line between a costume for kids that is a direct representation of a movie character and a culturally insensitive piece of racist garbage?

I hear so often "I'm tired of arguing this..." and yet, they keep talking about it and getting angry about it and spending so much energy on negativity. It's starting to bum ME out just seeing it. Not seeing the the desire to respect others, but seeing the terribly angry way it's being done.

How does a Jedi expected to handle this kind of phenomenon? Getting involved is out of the question, but not getting involved ensures that it keeps happening. It's frustrating...

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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #257819 by Adder
It's interesting. People can take offense at anything and take any extent of offense no less... but that cannot be avoided entirely for all people all the time - but we can minimize someone taking offense to some extent by not trying to cause offense. So I think intention to this needs to be the baseline assessment of whether the person taking offense is justified in leveling wrongdoing to someone.

Then there is the always present reality of different levels of cultural awareness - just like individuals have different sensitivities. So this needs to be considered as well in assessing someones intention to offend. But a sensitivity risks becoming a fragility when the reaction is not associated with intention. Being fragile might not be a bad thing, but it might be something the person themselves needs to manage rather then expecting the rest of the world to somehow both be aware of its existence and change their behaviour - if not just for the reason that we cannot control everyone we might meet. Intention seems key to me.

So while I have not really read too much about this 'brown face' complaint, I'm not sure if the intention was to insult or offend so I'd have to wonder if the originating culture had a pre-established perspective on this type of representation eg. is representations of their deities allowed, is there a history of discriminatory behaviour with the 'brown face' itself - to see if it was a lack of cultural intelligence on the product developer. I think people should make an effort not to offend, but to a realistic extent (ie practical effort shaped by good intention). That is how I currently see the issue more broadly. But yea, some people enjoy being angry despite its impact on them.

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Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by Adder.
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7 years 7 months ago #257820 by MadHatter
I think the best way to deal with this is to try to be a voice of reason and if reason will not be heard then you must leave them to their anger. One can act as a lantern in the dark but you cant drag the traveler down the road. At least not without setting down your own light leaving you both blind.

Knight of the Order
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Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can

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7 years 7 months ago #257821 by Carlos.Martinez3
There was a article before the movie made its call to cast. It said something like and I'm not quoting directly, I'll look for it shortly, but something like Disney new character is fat. Then compared the character to a A list of Pacific islander actors stars and said this isn't fat, this guy is. A few months later The rock is playing his voice and has no problem portraying the demi God. The drama comes from the writer and their take on things. Some takes are not smart. Some seem adolescent but you get what u payed for. I am a Jedi and have noticed there have been, here where I am at least, a Flux of new stories and myths emerging from all over. I love it. Bring me more stories to think on and research so I can tell my family the story over and over again. Because of jungle book, we have Kippling. A many other examples could be listed but what I see to me is silly people kicking against the pricks. People just causing drama where there is no drama. Seems like America to me suffers from Munchausen type of thought when it comes to the media at times to me, but that's just my take.

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7 years 7 months ago #257836 by JamesSand
Tsst.

So, I'm part of a nation that is just over 200 years old.

A baby in those terms, and we (I use a fairly general we here. My family only came here a generation ago, but I'm white, so it doesn't count :huh: ) took this land with some fairly keen attempts at genocide.

It happened.

The "Take-away" is, I don't get much "cultural" cred - Everything I have, eat, wear, listen to etc is stolen/appropriated.

I can understand, on paper I suppose, why a "cultural group" gets upset at their identity being used (and sometimes not accurately) for any purpose - being profit, someone elses entertainment, or what-have-you.

But, rightly or wrongly, I more or less hold the view that "It's one world"- You want Japanese Cars, Chinese Clothes, Canadian Maple Syrup, American Movies, Swiss army knives, German beer etc etc - Well, then maybe you have to share your tattoos and hairstyles, and accept that other people might use them differently than your traditional ways dictate.


So, rage out on Facebook if you want.

It might be worth remembering where Facebook came from (Hint: It wasn't the pacific islands)
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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #257859 by Zenchi
The vast majority of people when reacting to this sort of nonsense, aren't genuinely offended, they've found sustenance and jump at the chance. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the world is a vampire. People overreact to nonsense because it feels good. They group together, and get downright belligerent and hostile, because stupid sh!t like this gives them the opportunity to do so, and alot of it is due to repressed emotions as a result of living in a society of repressed individuals.

What can you as a Jedi do about it? Cut it out of your life, immediately. You're not going to sway the mind of anyone who's quick to jump on the "offended bandwagon." Remember, this essentially has little to nothing to do about being genuinely offended. Their giving Into their dark side because they've been brought up in a repressed society. And now everything but the very worst behavior is tolerated, if not glorified.

Focus on the good you can do, and find those that want to listen...

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Passion, yet Serenity
Knighted Apprentice Arisaig
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Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by Zenchi.
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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #257861 by
I am Italian.
We have Berlusconi, pizza, mafia and our prime minister isn't able to say a single phrase in english but still refuse to use a translator and is really embarrassing. Some months ago I was in Cairo (Egypt) and the first thing my friends said when I arrived was "I have seen your prime minister, hilarious!". Martin Shultz publicly said our politicians are the worst (and it's true).
Here we are not talking about racism, because we are not a minority of some kind, but the whole world makes fun of us for some good or bad reasons (80% Italians really are as jokes describe them).
Now, should that 20% furiously rage against everyone that tell a joke about Italy? I don't think so. Personally, I do not.
When different cultures meet (Italy and UK, Germany and Japan or Maori and USA) the main topic is what is different between these two cultures (we talk 99% about difference and 1% about similarities, if you want an example just check the chat when there are 6 or 7 people online), so, in my opinion, this whole event is just a manifestation of one of these differences between two cultures meeting. I would not say that it can be seen as a valorisation of cultural identity but I would not take it as an offence either.
Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by . Reason: Writing in english with Italian autocorrect = bad grammar

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7 years 7 months ago #257863 by
Let it be. Whilst it is wrong, we, white people, have been disgusting to everyone else. (Not individually, but as a race). The British Empire. Holocaust. Both Wars cause by a white guy. Let the minorities have their revenge, and when it's over, there will be peace.

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7 years 7 months ago - 7 years 7 months ago #257866 by Carlos.Martinez3
There are individuals that can be made to be responsible. The color of their skin seems to be a main focus. The "hype" seems to be every where. It's location is never in one sole place. Names and labels help divide. In this case, dividing lines are present. Journalist some times forget this. Some journalist don't care the magnitude of the labels and names they put on things. To them its just a story. I say let the fake elites and opposition continue. That's part of it I guess now, with out opposition there can be no progress. Sad we have to pay such a high price for receiving such gifts from other s. It's a movie about their story and some one has to razz them or make fun of it some how. No names. Just a part of the whole "gig" I guess. Shaking my head. I'm had I don't subscribe to that way of thinking. None of us do.

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Last edit: 7 years 7 months ago by Carlos.Martinez3.

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7 years 7 months ago #257876 by Jack.Troutman
As Americans it seems we are quickly losing the ability to think for ourselves. We need to teach critical thinking at a much earlier age, like every year stating in the first grade! Without the ability to think for ourselves we get angry at what we are told to be angry about. We get offended at what we are told should offend us. Yet at the same time we turn a blind eye to real issues such as political grandstanding and lifetime politicians who are only trying to line their pockets off the backs of not only Americans, but the world community as well. I don't really care if a football player kneels during a song. Plain and simple, he has the right. We may not like it, but he has the freedom to do so and the right to do so. This right was given to him by every person that has ever served in the American military. Some find it disrespectful. What I find disrespectful is the waste and corruption that is running wild in our government, but people would rather worry about a football player not standing. What about all of the Senators and other politicians that do not stand during the same song? Where was the "outrage" then? The outrageously outraged in this country (USA) has become nearly a political party in itself. Maybe instead of telling everyone we should be mad about this or that, we should start telling people that thank you for your political service, but your term is up...goodbye. As part of the Jedi community I try to represent us as thinking, compassionate, and as having unshakable integrity. Am I fallible, yes. Do I always have the right answer, no. But I do have integrity, I can adopt multiple perspectives, and I practice reflection which gives me intuitive understanding of the world around me. Hopefulness, wonder, humility, dedication, insight, joy, kindness, nurturance, self-investigation, openness, and patience are the qualities we need to embrace, not undying anger and hatred for everything we are told to be angry about and hate. I was not going to add to this discussion, but I felt I had to say something. I usually sit back and watch how things unfold, but as a Jedi we have to not only know when to act, but when not to as well.
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