UK leaves European Union!

Manu wrote:

Vraell wrote:

Manu wrote: I'm not very fluent in British politics, but the main reasons I would see for UK to leave the EU are:

1. Regain sovereignty over business and migration regulations.
2. Stop the outward flow of money from the UK into the EU (due to membership fees and bailouts for failing countries such as Greece and Spain).
3. Devalue the Sterling Pound to make it more expensive to buy products from other EU countries and simultaneously make it cheaper for other countries to buy UK exports, thus increasing gross domestic production.

The vote has been cast, but the new British Prime Minister will still have to negotiate the details of the UK exit, so we can't know the full extent of the effects this decision will have.

That will not happen, half UK exportations are to EU, UK money drop value to dollar and euro, if Scotland leaves UK will loose the oil trade in the North, this is a dark day to UK,

Precisely because the UK money will drop in value is that trade will not decrease. EU will prefer to buy cheaper goods.

yea, exports get cheaper and imports become more expensive. Except UK exports to the EU will be taxed by the EU, The UK is not a huge loss for the EU as a market, AND, debt repayment will also become more expensive. The UK has the second highest external debt in the world, totaling 9 trillion US dollars, which works out at 150000 US dollars per Brit (including newborns). In comparison the GDP of the EU is 16 trillion US dollars. Good luck with the debt repayments.

Say what you want but the bottom line is, the people made their choice on what they felt was best.
Just because some people may think they are right and those who voted leave are wrong, does not mean that is the case, in politics there is hardly ever a clear cut wrong and right, it is all subjective as is so much in this world.

The idea that the UK voting to come out of the EU is undemocratic and far right extremist is beyond me?

The EU was not a bastion of democracy it was a corrupt cesspool leading way to a corporate dictatorship and the people here claiming it was an amazing social union and lead to peace, I just don't know where you get this idea from... it has lead to unbelievable amounts of political and social tension as nations and peoples with different wishes and views were clashed and tied together and forced to follow suit.

That is not democracy, with no less than 3 layers between the elected membership and top authorities in the EU and their desire to eliminate nation states and their identity and parliamentary democracy I fail to see how it can be anything more than a plan for a corporate take over of Europe.

People, real decent people do not need elites to unite and busineses to have special rights and any political union to have a strong united peaceful social union and friendship amongst others.

I am happy we are out of the abrasive behemoth that the EU has become and I truly hope that on a grass root level we can remain friends and now with the political and economic tensions gone, we can cooperate freely without being forced into anything. (like the Nordic Council)

You can argue that the EU promoted peace till the sun dies but at least this one issue is factually incorrect, the EU has bullied and provoked Russia and has caused immense tension in recent years. With statements and plans to create an EU military "to combat Russia". The issue in Ukraine of course a great example, the reason the EU really wants Ukraine to join? The oil, and with it the money, which is what the entire EU project has always been about, you only need to look into how the heiarchy is run to see the truth to this.

This is a happy time for me and I feel it would be for many more if only they looked beyond the media that is controlled by those very people that benefit from the EU and it's elitist ways.

My only sadness is for the climate change and environmental policies the EU has managed to achieve, but there is no reason the UK and any of the next nations to leave the EU won't and can't make their own measures to save the earth.

Strider wrote: The issue in Ukraine of course a great example, the reason the EU really wants Ukraine to join? The oil, and with it the money, which is what the entire EU project has always been about, you only need to look into how the heiarchy is run to see the truth to this.

I'm not sure where you got this from, but it's simply factually, massively wrong. Ukraine's oil and natural gas reserves are basically depleted now. Between rapidly decaying industrial infrastructure, rampant corruption and the fact that Russia occupies its two eastern-most (and coal-rich) provinces plus Crimea, Ukraine would be anything but a safe, stable cash cow for the EU. Of course, the EU is still where the largest share of Ukraine's exports go right now, but very little of this is oil, simply because Ukraine doesn't *have* much oil anymore.

The EU does, in general, have an interest in making Ukraine a member, and Ukraine would happily become an EU (and NATO) member tomorrow if they could, and say what you will about the EU, but it's definitely not because Ukraine is some resource-rich country. It isn't. It's probably more to do with general geopolitical maneuvering (e.g. restricting aggressive Russian expansion in eastern Europe) and also probably having an invested interest in Ukraine's biggest neighbour not constantly being at war with it, since that is what the future seems to hold for the country, and war has a habit of spooking potential investors and slowing economic growth.

You call Russia expansionist I call them defensive.
Russia are not occupying any part of Ukraine, Crimea is now part of Russia (again, the people never lost Russian citizenship). I think you mean eastern seperatist rebels, we have had war observers checking the vehicles coming through the border from Russia, and they have found only food and supplies for the people who are being massacred by the Kiev government and caught in the crossfire.

When you have been provoked and geopolitically harrassed and have had 30 thousand marines on your border and an entire US armored dvision patrolling through countries which border you, nuclear weapons pointed at you and having been sanctioned for protecting your own citizens, I imagine defensive measures are understandable? (and yet so much more has been done to them, not to mention the proxy wars)

Ukraine has one of the highest shale gas reserves in Europe are you saying this is untrue?

ren wrote:

Manu wrote:

Vraell wrote:

Manu wrote: I'm not very fluent in British politics, but the main reasons I would see for UK to leave the EU are:

1. Regain sovereignty over business and migration regulations.
2. Stop the outward flow of money from the UK into the EU (due to membership fees and bailouts for failing countries such as Greece and Spain).
3. Devalue the Sterling Pound to make it more expensive to buy products from other EU countries and simultaneously make it cheaper for other countries to buy UK exports, thus increasing gross domestic production.

The vote has been cast, but the new British Prime Minister will still have to negotiate the details of the UK exit, so we can't know the full extent of the effects this decision will have.

That will not happen, half UK exportations are to EU, UK money drop value to dollar and euro, if Scotland leaves UK will loose the oil trade in the North, this is a dark day to UK,

Precisely because the UK money will drop in value is that trade will not decrease. EU will prefer to buy cheaper goods.

yea, exports get cheaper and imports become more expensive. Except UK exports to the EU will be taxed by the EU, The UK is not a huge loss for the EU as a market, AND, debt repayment will also become more expensive. The UK has the second highest external debt in the world, totaling 9 trillion US dollars, which works out at 150000 US dollars per Brit (including newborns). In comparison the GDP of the EU is 16 trillion US dollars. Good luck with the debt repayments.

Good point. When you're talking about exports from the UK to EU, I think it's also important to realize that "[r]egain sovereignty over business" is a chimera as well, because all those imported goods will still have to be in accordance with EU regulations. Britain just won't have a say in what those regulations are anymore.

Silas Mercury wrote: Happy Independence Day to everyone in Britain !!! Finally we can have a country free from the bureaucratic system they call the EU. One step closer to a better world. may the force be with you all.

Happy independence day England because you will kiss goodbye to Scotland and maybe north ireland xD i dont think that Brexit was a good option

Vraell wrote:

Silas Mercury wrote: Happy Independence Day to everyone in Britain !!! Finally we can have a country free from the bureaucratic system they call the EU. One step closer to a better world. may the force be with you all.

Happy independence day England because you will kiss goodbye to Scotland and maybe north ireland xD i dont think that Brexit was a good option

I hear you but honestly the countries of the UK have not had the same majority view for decades, and due to Englands massively higher population the smaller nations never get their voices heard and I feel for the minority very deeply.
As I said in a comment a while ago I hope we can learn that political union is only holding people back and causing tension, we don't need elite classes to unite for the normal people to be peacefully and socially united.

Edit: I just want to add also that I understand how you can see this as a sad day, one that seems as though we're ripping apart and leaving each other but I just don't see it like that at all, governance and politics should never be used as a tool to force social and cultural ties in my opinion. I do believe the tension amongst the peoples of Europe will lessen if we just dropped the political unity and kept working together on friendly neighbour terms.
This is not about us leaving our Spanish, French, German, Dutch, Swedish etc etc friends and allies behind, this is about leaving the political state that is the EU, seperate from those individual nation states and national parliaments.

United in friendship not in power!

ren wrote:

Manu wrote:

Vraell wrote:

Manu wrote: I'm not very fluent in British politics, but the main reasons I would see for UK to leave the EU are:

1. Regain sovereignty over business and migration regulations.
2. Stop the outward flow of money from the UK into the EU (due to membership fees and bailouts for failing countries such as Greece and Spain).
3. Devalue the Sterling Pound to make it more expensive to buy products from other EU countries and simultaneously make it cheaper for other countries to buy UK exports, thus increasing gross domestic production.

The vote has been cast, but the new British Prime Minister will still have to negotiate the details of the UK exit, so we can't know the full extent of the effects this decision will have.

That will not happen, half UK exportations are to EU, UK money drop value to dollar and euro, if Scotland leaves UK will loose the oil trade in the North, this is a dark day to UK,

Precisely because the UK money will drop in value is that trade will not decrease. EU will prefer to buy cheaper goods.

yea, exports get cheaper and imports become more expensive. Except UK exports to the EU will be taxed by the EU, The UK is not a huge loss for the EU as a market, AND, debt repayment will also become more expensive. The UK has the second highest external debt in the world, totaling 9 trillion US dollars, which works out at 150000 US dollars per Brit (including newborns). In comparison the GDP of the EU is 16 trillion US dollars. Good luck with the debt repayments.

I'm pretty sure a good chunk of German industry have already they won't impose tariffs on UK German trade as it would destroy their own economy. And the German car manufacturers have told Merkel that they want free trade with the UK.

Also, the UK was the second biggest economy in the EU so it is actually a pretty huge loss to the EU Market.

Vraell wrote:

Silas Mercury wrote: Happy Independence Day to everyone in Britain !!! Finally we can have a country free from the bureaucratic system they call the EU. One step closer to a better world. may the force be with you all.

Happy independence day England because you will kiss goodbye to Scotland and maybe north ireland xD i dont think that Brexit was a good option

My father was Irish, so I hold a Southern Irish passport too, so legally, I'm a member of the EU. But they were bureaucrats. And Scotland, and Northern Ireland deserve their independence anyway.

United in diversity :pinch:

If Scotland builds some big dam's it can sell the fossil fuels to Eastern Europe and the clean hydro power to England!!