Citizens with guns

Adder wrote:

MadHatter wrote: Ok no, a thousand times no to this.....

In 1v1 sure, but how realistic is it to limit the analysis to that? A few guys can pretty easily tackle a knife wielder because they can accelerate to contact fast through the weapons effective range. This is much much much less possible with a gun, due to its range, and design to be be effective at range. Tackling is just one example of a less then lethal option.

How often other then a law enforcement officer will you have the advantage of numbers willing to act. Most people flee violence or become paralyzed they dont fight. Further easily tackle? Sure and one of them can easily end up with a knife somewhere vital during the event too. Good people should not have to pray for numbers and luck to survive a madman with a knife. Finally a gun is a much more directional weapon then a knife. Once tackled a gun is easier to control then a knife as the dangerous end is one single location not the entire length of a weapon.
Also I covered several other less lethal options and why their weaknesses are huge risks.

MadHatter wrote:

Adder wrote:

MadHatter wrote: Ok no, a thousand times no to this.....

In 1v1 sure, but how realistic is it to limit the analysis to that? A few guys can pretty easily tackle a knife wielder because they can accelerate to contact fast through the weapons effective range. This is much much much less possible with a gun, due to its range, and design to be be effective at range. Tackling is just one example of a less then lethal option.

How often other then a law enforcement officer will you have the advantage of numbers willing to act. Most people flee violence or become paralyzed they dont fight. Further easily tackle? Sure and one of them can easily end up with a knife somewhere vital during the event too. Good people should not have to pray for numbers and luck to survive a madman with a knife. Finally a gun is a much more directional weapon then a knife. Once tackled a gun is easier to control then a knife as the dangerous end is one single location not the entire length of a weapon.
Also I covered several other less lethal options and why their weaknesses are huge risks.

Happens often enough. But sure if alone, you can run away from a knife unless they throw it at you (but then they've disarmed themselves), and you can use anything which is longer then the knife to deflect or disarm like a bat, rod, stick etc if for some reason you cannot run. Those options almost entirely disappear against a gun.

If viewing from the angle of citizens getting involved before first responders, then it is inviting a lot of risk due to the many variables due to the high likelihood of inadequate information. I'm not saying there aren't examples to support the usefulness of a gun in defence, just like I'm not saying its impossible not to be cut by a knife, nor am I suggesting all the other unique ways a gun can be the most effective killing tool for murder, like from a moving vehicle or long range sniping etc.

This may sound unreasonably idealistic, but I dream of a day when the entire planet will be rid of complex weapons such as guns and nukes. One day, humanity will have risen above the need to use such crude tools for defense, mainly because we will no longer have problems like poverty and conflicting religious ideologies. You know, world peace. But until then, there is always some "bad guy" looking for an opportunity to harm an innocent person. The best defense is to be able to defend yourself without having to call someone else for help. Just ask the Order of Shaolin Ch'an. Defense only.

You all make very good points, some of which I agree with wholeheartedly. I greatly value your input, even if I don't always agree.
I believe that in the Force exists the power to unite humanity and that this Temple of the Jedi Order is demonstrating the Way.

Adder wrote:

MadHatter wrote:

Adder wrote:

MadHatter wrote: Ok no, a thousand times no to this.....

In 1v1 sure, but how realistic is it to limit the analysis to that? A few guys can pretty easily tackle a knife wielder because they can accelerate to contact fast through the weapons effective range. This is much much much less possible with a gun, due to its range, and design to be be effective at range. Tackling is just one example of a less then lethal option.

How often other then a law enforcement officer will you have the advantage of numbers willing to act. Most people flee violence or become paralyzed they dont fight. Further easily tackle? Sure and one of them can easily end up with a knife somewhere vital during the event too. Good people should not have to pray for numbers and luck to survive a madman with a knife. Finally a gun is a much more directional weapon then a knife. Once tackled a gun is easier to control then a knife as the dangerous end is one single location not the entire length of a weapon.
Also I covered several other less lethal options and why their weaknesses are huge risks.

Happens often enough. But sure if alone, you can run away from a knife unless they throw it at you (but then they've disarmed themselves), and you can use anything which is longer then the knife to deflect or disarm like a bat, rod, stick etc if for some reason you cannot run. Those options almost entirely disappear against a gun.

If viewing from the angle of citizens getting involved before first responders, then it is inviting a lot of risk due to the many variables due to the high likelihood of inadequate information. I'm not saying there aren't examples to support the usefulness of a gun in defence, just like I'm not saying its impossible not to be cut by a knife, nor am I suggesting all the other ways a gun can be the most effective killing tool for a murder.

Running is a good way to get a knife in the back. Longer bludgeoning weapons COULD be a viable option if you know what you are doing. But if you know of the bystander effect you should know you are unlikely to have numbers to come to your unarmed aid.
Yes guns are good tools for destruction I wont deny that. Further less lethal options should always be your third choice with verbal defense being second and just leaving if possible being option one. I carry a firearm daily and have been in the position where a firearm saved my skin twice without having to pull the trigger and I agree that lethal force is always a last and terrible resort. However it should be an option for those willing to defend themselves an others to that level.
My only reason for commenting is because I have seen a ton of knife attack videos and know that it is by no means easy to disarm and take down someone set on hurting others with a knife. Its in fact easier to blindside someone with a firearm because of the directional requirements of the weapon. Further if someone doesnt have it pointed at you and you are closer then 21 feet you stand a good chance of being on top of them and doing damage before they can hurt you. An edged weapon is far easier to use in that situation. Mostly just adding my knowledge of self defense and weapons weaknesses to the conversation because bad information can get good people hurt.
Thanks for being so civil about it and I hope I didnt come off as rude at any point.

My opinion is that unless a person is not only trained to used a gun, but also how to use a gun in an emergency situation, then they have no business carrying one.

In a fight-or-flight situation, the brain does crazy things. The average person, though they may have the skills to use a firearm in non-emergency, can freeze up or panic or any number of natural responses when faced with a life or death situation. And that can be a real risk.

Those trained in the military and law-enforcement fields have specialized training to be able to use lethal weapons that even in high-risk situations, they are far more equipped to deal with the physical and psychological responses, and so, be able to properly use a firearm.

I just dropped in to see what's happening. Not much has changed.

I got my permit, have a pistol and am getting training. I dare you to call me evil. Double dare you!

Just read "The Tao of Pooh." I highly recommend it. Am reading it a second time.

Ordered, "The Te of Piglet" and "The Tao of Physics."

Now back to you usual routine. Peace

Rickie wrote: I got my permit, have a pistol and am getting training. I dare you to call me evil. Double dare you!

Why do you say this? It seems very defensive.

Miss_Leah wrote:

Rickie wrote: I got my permit, have a pistol and am getting training. I dare you to call me evil. Double dare you!

Why do you say this? It seems very defensive.

I've never known Rickie to be defensive. It sounds to me like a joke. He's pretty chill. :laugh:

sarcasm that's all not a challenge

I do have a pistol though and the statement I was trying to make...I am not evil because I have one. Peace

Rickie wrote: sarcasm that's all not a challenge

I do have a pistol though and the statement I was trying to make...I am not evil because I have one. Peace

I hope you never have to use it ...