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31 Mar 2016 21:25 #236400 by
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDwQJ64UpFQ

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01 Apr 2016 03:17 #236420 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Man ...
Unless the video was created by a women, then hang on it perhaps its a male bashing thing.
See it wasn't called 'human' but 'man', and men have ruled the roost since recorded history so....
:woohoo:
Just kidding, I hope everyone can see the light side of participation. If someone is going all dark on ya then it might not be in your best interests to bother getting dragged in.

Even my reply to Khaos was not meant to be critical of his opinion... though I know it can be read that way because I didn't put in a question mark.

If we avoid the personal attacks then all opinions are valid from certain points of view, and the challenge by sharing them is to take a point of view, and then explore those different points of view. The process of shifting ones point of view is a valuable exercise to avoid getting stuck in a habit or rut.

Introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist.
Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu

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01 Apr 2016 06:43 #236431 by
Replied by on topic Man ...

Adder wrote: Unless the video was created by a women, then hang on it perhaps its a male bashing thing.
See it wasn't called 'human' but 'man', and men have ruled the roost since recorded history so....
:woohoo:
Just kidding, I hope everyone can see the light side of participation. If someone is going all dark on ya then it might not be in your best interests to bother getting dragged in.

Even my reply to Khaos was not meant to be critical of his opinion... though I know it can be read that way because I didn't put in a question mark.

If we avoid the personal attacks then all opinions are valid from certain points of view, and the challenge by sharing them is to take a point of view, and then explore those different points of view. The process of shifting ones point of view is a valuable exercise to avoid getting stuck in a habit or rut.


True , and its ok to disagree :cheer:

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01 Apr 2016 14:06 #236446 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Man ...
Thank you Pastor for posting the video. Im not a fan of dooms day and all. Never have been. Seen it first hand. Been in third world countries and some not even on a map. Ive been to cities and village's. I have met with politicians and chiefs and friends. To me the solution, If any, in a feeling of over powered rubbish and filth seems to be the same. Change the way we personally act. This day there is a over populated collective of not doing anything it seems that the ones who do do...no pun intended , are on a loosing battle yet... me and my wife and son stopped yesterday on the highway and watch the breezes blow in the field of grass and we sat on our knees and were thankful for the sun and the wind and the grass and we , all 3 were in quiet meditation. It may seem like we are in a loosing battle some days but let me tell you do not let what you see distance you from YOUR OWN solution. Its totally possible to be in tune and in touch when "others" seem like they are not.

What are you doing friends? I would love to know how fellow Jedi are not letting what they see divert them. Any takers?

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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01 Apr 2016 16:24 - 01 Apr 2016 16:37 #236458 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Man ...

Darren wrote: The OP is similar to this one; similar message, and similar delivery...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY


i do see the similarity, i would have posted it here too if id have known of it, but honestly except for the animated medium, i think the messages are pretty different

first of all, the one you posted is funny

the song isnt really something that i would listen to on its own merits, and my tolerance for simulated violence gets short and shorter as i age

despite that, the first half minute or so i thought was great, but the messages of the videos themselves were QUITE different i think, and so too the level of thoughtfulness and nuance

the first was pretty simplistic really, there was hardly more than a single layer to it and it was ignorant of evolutionary history, which it had no right to be because that was the context it assumed for itself, and it used this context to make a critique on mankind's place in and relationship with the whole rest of the universe

(i will share an article in my next post about how human anxiety is linked to our history as PREY animals)

the second video, "this land is my land" was also a simplification but no more than it had to be

it was not so gross of one (imo) as to be inaccurate or unfair

but the main things that make it really different, to my mind, are

1. we see that man is as much the victim of violence as we are the perpetrators of it - so it is a commentary about man's relationship with man, about how we treat each other

or for the really modern "all is one" kind of thinker we could say its a commentary on how we treat "ourselves"

2. the real sharpness of this critique is not a result of the images alone, but from the stark contrast between the aesthetic beauty and even nobility of thought that is represented by the song, with the just totally casual slaughter of each other

so theres a more complicated and REAL message here - its a message borne of hope as much one of resentment, even if the hope is unspoken, because it includes, front and center (with the music) that man is CAPABLE of better

it doesnt just say "youre a monster"
it says "we know better than this" and thats a big difference

3. the ending of the first video leaves us thinking that man is just a big jerk and once a bigger badder someone comes along and kills us then we've gotten what we deserve

the ending of the second video was much thoughtful - MUCH more
this ending is kind of the culmination of the first two ideas with the addition of one final theme: the angel of death

notice that the angel of death becomes visible only at the end
he doesnt simply "APPEAR" - he BECOMES VISIBLE

the implication is that he was always there
and since he is the one to actually complete the song, with the lines "this land is MINE" the suggestion is that he is actually the REAL singer and it was his voice from the beginning

which when we hear of "religious fervor" or "the fervor of war" and we see how we have the potential to be really caught in the grip of this or that ideology whereby we justify all manner of violence - how "good people can do bad things" when so gripped, the concept of "possession" actually makes some sense - not to say that there really is some conscious invisible being stirring us up towards violence, probably the "demon" which possesses us is a part of our own psyche (but thats just a modern way of saying the same damn thing) nevertheless there is an additional level of tragedy here in the recognition that our highest ideals are being used to drive us into actions which contradict or violate those same ideals, and that we are being driven at a level we dont wholly recognize and which in the end puts us all equally into the position of victims

i really appreciate the second video

the first one was just the tantrum of someone who wants to feel justified either in hating him/herself or in looking down on everyone else

maybe both

People are complicated.
Last edit: 01 Apr 2016 16:37 by OB1Shinobi.

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01 Apr 2016 17:07 - 01 Apr 2016 17:09 #236462 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Man ...
i found this yesterday and it was not only relevant to this discussion but imo its fascinating
it talks about how everyday anxiety traces back to being hunted and eaten by other animals throughout our evolution and how things as fundamental to our being as language and vision were partly a result of the fact the we were prey

its really cool if youre in to that sort of thing

the article is called

"What Are You So Scared of?
Saber-Toothed Cats, Snakes, and Carnivorous Kangaroos.

The evolutionary legacy of having been prey."

heres a link:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_evolution/2012/10/evolution_of_anxiety_humans_were_prey_for_predators_such_as_hyenas_snakes.html

im going to put the whole article in the spoiler but i will post a few pieces here that i think contribute to the ongoing discussion

Warning: Spoiler!


"....our legacy of ancient fears, the result of having spent millions of years running from predators. Our fear response is more influenced by the ancient species we struggled to escape than any modern challenges.

Exposed and relatively defenseless, our predecessors stood a good chance of being eaten by bigger, badder, species. For most of our evolutionary history as primates, we were far more likely to play the role of Big Mac than Big Man on Campus.

Humans were eaten by giant hyenas, cave bears, cave lions, eagles, snakes, other primates, wolves, saber-toothed cats, false saber-toothed cats, and maybe even—bless their hearts—giant, predatory kangaroos. Amazingly, these are just the predators that consumed our ancestors during relatively recent history, the past 100,000 years or so. Go further back in time, and the diversity of things that ate our kin goes up (particularly given that our earlier, pre-hominin ancestors were progressively smaller). Some predators, such as leopards, ate many of our ancestors. Others, like crocodiles, komodo dragons, or sharks, took their bites, but more opportunistically, savoring the occasional human or proto-human the way one might enjoy some special holiday treat. We were, in other words, their thanksgiving turkey.

In those few places where large predators are still common, primates, especially cute baby ones, are eaten with great frequency and alacrity. When our species evolved, human children were special only in as much as their hairlessness made them slightly easier to digest. Even today, where humans live alongside predators, both children and adults get eaten. Harry Greene, a herpetologist at Cornell University and one of a handful of my colleagues more likely to be eaten by a wild animal than to die of old age, and Thomas Headland, an anthropologist, recently conducted a study of Agta hunter-gatherers in the Philippines. Harry was excited to find that the Agta lived among a high density of pythons. The Agta tend to be not quite so excited; Greene and Headland found that one in four Agta men had been attacked by a reticulated python. Of the 120 men whose stories were considered for the study, six had been killed by a python. That’s a death-by-python rate of 1 in 20.

Then there are the parasitic worms whose presence may have shaped our immune systems to such an extent that some of us miss their absence; autoimmune disorders—including Crohn’s disease and asthma—have been linked to now-obsolete adaptations to keep these worms in check.

How our bodies work (or fail to work) in modern environments relates not to the species we confront now, but the collective effect of the species we confronted over millions of years. We are left with the bodies that were best able to survive despite the daily threat of being eaten by a predator, sickened by a parasite or pathogen, or otherwise assaulted by Mother Nature’s well-armed hordes.

We could bemoan these legacies, but it makes more sense to confront them head on, to consider just how we should live not in light of the bodies we wish we had but instead with the ones we are born with, bodies that evolved in the wild, thanks to ancestors who only just barely got away."

People are complicated.
Last edit: 01 Apr 2016 17:09 by OB1Shinobi.
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02 Apr 2016 07:37 - 02 Apr 2016 07:53 #236522 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Man ...

MartaLina wrote: True , and its ok to disagree :cheer:


Yep, for sure :lol:
It would probably get boring if we all shared the exact same point of view about everything!!

I just try to view things as measures of accuracy to something (sometimes in quite complex relationships), rather then a flag of a binary truth or false value and then associating that flag value to that particular point of view. It just helps keep me orientated away from viewing things in right and wrong... seems to 'flow' better when dealing with complexity for me.
:blink:

Introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist.
Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 02 Apr 2016 07:53 by Adder.
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02 Apr 2016 10:09 #236524 by
Replied by on topic Man ...
I know this is about Earth in particular but i think Einstein has a good point here , its how we see ourselves in this Universe , our place , we are all connected and important and a part of a greater Something , what is your starting point , Despair or Hope ?


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02 Apr 2016 17:59 - 02 Apr 2016 18:24 #236550 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Man ...
what about volcanoes and tornadoes?

they are powerful to the point that we cannot withstand them
and if we do not recognize them as dangerous to us, there will be fatal consequences when we encounter them
but are the words "friendly" and "hostile" appropriate to understanding them?
is a tornado being playful when it destroys a home? is it angry?

what if you found out that the universe is essentially hostile?
would that change your commitment to being friendly yourself?

would you choose to become hostile?

or would you still choose "to become the change you wish to see in the world"?

maybe the universe is just powerful - maybe it is extremely powerful, and utterly impersonal

and its up to you (us) to decide how you (we) want to navigate that

People are complicated.
Last edit: 02 Apr 2016 18:24 by OB1Shinobi.

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02 Apr 2016 18:08 #236551 by
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4238NN8HMgQ

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