Robes and Sabers

The robe for me has no import into my life, I don't have one, but as a concept to me does represents a few things. The limitations of objective reality hanging over a proverbial open sky of limitless experience in subjective reality, which translates to awake awareness compared to dreaming awareness, and connects to my interest in spirituality by associating to non-dualism.

So the hood represents the closing of the physical eyes to let the third eye open, sort of thing... but it's just symbolic and therefore not something I need to own, or wear. Suitable for ceremonial purposes though as a uniform if we ever needed to represent unity in a physical location, but its shared with a few other religious traditions, and I do share many of their reasons too, eg ascetic ideal.

But yea, just a symbol for me, nothing more, to reflect upon the fleeting nature of life and how we are all full of hot air :pinch:

The saber does have import for me, as a tool in lucid dreaming it benefits from a presence in the awake awareness to facilitate it's accessibility and utility in the dreaming awareness. So I have a custom hilt project, a Maul double bladed, and a few sticks to throw around. So then, if that can be tied into a capacity for self defense with any stick or staff like object then that is a plus. The fancy stuff like colored blade is just a useful level of functionality, but I don't like the sound effects and disconnected my speakers on my Maul hilts. I have a few other tools for dreaming which I try to shoehorn into some unified construct.

If they can be related in some way then they can serve as a more cohesive form of ideal to shape growth and focus, to better contrast against the actual physical reality of life. So it's not a celebration of the movies to use the fiction for me, it's a type of future ideal to work towards as a goal. The only reason it has relevance to 'Jedi' for me is because it is the most suitable and applicable model to use, for me.

Aqua wrote:

Streen wrote: I think it's just a personal preference. I mean, [strike]Jediism is based on Star Wars[/strike], lets be honest.

Jediism is developed from the same idea-source that made of Star Wars! We discovered that source trough the movies, not by the movies? There may be some appendixes though.. correct me on my words if needed :blush:

Star Wars led to role playing. Role playing led to Jedi Realism. Jedi Realism led to Jediism. It may not be "based" on Star Wars, but it was certainly the source.

Streen wrote: Star Wars led to role playing. Role playing led to Jedi Realism. Jedi Realism led to Jediism. It may not be "based" on Star Wars, but it was certainly the source.

Not entirely sure I agree with that.

It may be true of Jedi Realism and Jediism elsewhere, but I was under the impression that the Jediism found here was sourced from the same sources used to create the Jedi in the movies, not the actual Jedi in the movies. (I have done a terrible job of explaining myself there).

Granted the movies did serve as an inspiration and one could certainly say that without the movies there would be no Jediism, I would still say that it is incorrect to say they were the source. IMO the 'source' would be the works of Campbell and Watts etc. Though as I said that is just my opinion.

As it was told to me - By BR John and other elders of this temple (I could still have my facts wrong) This temple was first a catholic forum/website.

However

BR John WAS apart of, and influence by the mainstream "Jediism" as well as his own fandom for star wars in which he combined to create the temple.

Why is it so hard for people to accept that Yes. We were sourced from Star Wars and Role Player? Why is that such a bad thing that we have to find every work around to deny it? If "Jedi" is in the name....you can bet it came from Star Wars.

Trisskar wrote: Why is it so hard for people to accept that Yes. We were sourced from Star Wars and Role Player? Why is that such a bad thing that we have to find every work around to deny it?

I appreciate this wasn't aimed directly at me but...

I personally have no qualms with our connection to Star Wars, as you rightly say:

If "Jedi" is in the name....you can bet it came from Star Wars.

but I think that to say that 'TOTJO Jediism' is 'sourced' from Star Wars is wrong (at least not 100% right anyway). The sources that I mentioned earlier have played a much larger part IMO. You yourself have also indirectly implied a source in Catholicism (specific to TOTJO, not necessarily to Jediism in general), if that is indeed how this site started out. There are also strong links between Jediism and Taoism. Too many connections to claim any one thing as the source for my liking.

Also, roleplay plays (pun intended) absolutely no official role (again, pun intended) in the Jediism found here. So I would not call that a 'source'.

There are also hundreds of sites out there that practice/believe in force powers/mind tricks which I would argue use the films as much more of a 'source' than we do here. In fact there was even a thread about telekinesis recently, the idea of which many members here found to be absurd, or at the very least were skeptical of.

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/112352-how-many-practice-telekinesis?start=110#227935

Star Wars as an inspiration? Yes.

Star Wars as a source? Debatable, there are other potential 'sources' that I think have more in common with the beliefs found here.

Though I think we are now getting completely off topic. Sorry tzb :laugh:

I think we are getting into a discussion over semantics with Star Wars as inspiration vs source.

I'm sure NO ONE saw Star Wars and thought: "wow! what a cool religion those Jedi have, I'm gonna copy it". It probably was more like a recognition, saying "hey.... that feels right... where have I seen this before?"

For many, Star Wars was their gateway, their first step into a bigger world. Whether you want to call that a source, an inspiration or a recognition, or whatever, Star Wars is deeply engrained in the Jedi psyche.

I've a bit of an about-face on this issue in the past few months... Weird. When I first started my Jedi path, I would have never considered owning either of these two things.

I don't really have an interest in the robes or any other Star Wars-esque regalia, however I now have a lightsaber which is symbolic of my Jedi path (it's been weathered to make it look old, beat-up, but also like I made efforts to repair it).

Manu wrote: I think we are getting into a discussion over semantics with Star Wars as inspiration vs source.

Personally I feel the real trouble is the belief that a "Source" is a constant Its not....Just because something serves as a source dosn't mean it was the only one, or that it was the leading one. Just that it had a key role to play in the final outcome. Which is the fact that we call ourselves Jedi, practice and serve in the Force, and follow the Jedi Code. All of which are without any debate. Fiction. Star Wars. And Role Playing (In fact the Jedi Code is from a Role Playing guidebook for Tabletop Role Playing)

That dosn't mean there isn't other sources as well. Even the very first Jediism community said: "It shares many themes embraced in Hinduism, Confucionism, Buddhism, Gnosticism, Stoicism, Catholicism, Taoism, Shinto, Modern Mysticism, the Way of the Shaolin Monks, the Knight's Code of Chivalry and the Samurai Warriors."

All of which are "Sources"

It is my belief that if you argue it long enough you can find ANYTHING is connected with EVERYTHING. What is important is the "Keys" that we use. The Name (Jedi) The Practice (The Force) And the Laws (The Jedi Code)

The rest are just things the members and leaders added into it for eleven years

Just my thoughts anyways. *bows*

Edit: And I have said my peace I will stop de-railing! Sorry!!! Good conversation! Thank you everyone!

Trisskar wrote:

Manu wrote: I think we are getting into a discussion over semantics with Star Wars as inspiration vs source.

Personally I feel the real trouble is the belief that a "Source" is a constant

I've hesitated from entering this touchy subject all for good reasons, but feel some things need to be said. First of all, sources ARE constant, you can't remove them, that is unless you plan on rewriting the history of something and those factors that helped bring it into existence in the first place. Enough of that has happened in man-kinds history without the need for Jedi to become a part of the problem. I'd like to think we're better than that.

That dosn't mean there isn't other sources as well. Even the very first Jediism community said: "It shares many themes embraced in Hinduism, Confucionism, Buddhism, Gnosticism, Stoicism, Catholicism, Taoism, Shinto, Modern Mysticism, the Way of the Shaolin Monks, the Knight's Code of Chivalry and the Samurai Warriors."

All of which are "Sources"

True, Jediism sprang from MANY sources, including all of those listed above. Role playing, although I have not participated in those directly tied to Star Wars, is just as much a source as the others, and should not be frowned upon. Regardless, just as it is a source, it is not followed by every member in this community, and should not be painted as such!

There seems to be two primary crowds on this argument, as to whether roleplaying (and or elements associated with it) is tied to Jediism. Those who strongly oppose the idea, and those who engage in it as well as believe it is associated with this path. Those who oppose may be fearful of how this presents our image to the public. The news media is quick to jump on it and spin it into something it is not, so I totally understand where this apprehension comes from. I know I at one time strongly made the argument that we are not connected with the fiction or the roleplaying in any way.

I was wrong. My beliefs were directly rooted in fear, not in fact or an understanding as to where this community and the Temple sprang from. Regardless if we like it or not, the fiction and elements of roleplaying are sources. That does not translate to every member of this Temple having to dress up and carry lightsabers. Remember, Jediism has many roots, and that is what makes this path/religion/philosophy so awesome, it is open to interpretation depending on who follows it. This ultimately is the "source" for the vast majority of arguments in this community.

Some will see the roots of eastern philosophy, others may feel a connection to Watts and Campbell, and there are those who directly take inspiration from the fiction. None should be excluded as sources, they all had a hand to play in the direction of Jediism, like it or not. So long as these are given the respect they so deserve, then the opinions of the public will not matter how we follow Jediism as individuals. We all possess parts of this great puzzle...

Zenchi wrote: First of all, sources ARE constant, you can't remove them[/color]

I disagree. But that's ok

Some will see the roots of eastern philosophy, others may feel a connection to Watts and Campbell, and there are those who directly take inspiration from the fiction. None should be excluded as sources, they all had a hand to play in the direction of Jediism, like it or not. So long as these are given the respect they so deserve, then the opinions of the public will not matter how we follow Jediism as individuals. We all possess parts of this great puzzle...

Exactly