Robes and Sabers

Well, the lightsaber may be a symbol. But I'm not that symbolic guy. I only wear a TOTJO charm. Everything else is not an option for me.

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I think the robes are not just a symbol in my eye. They show unity, and a are a public display of your resolve towards your religion, akin to that of a turban, certain haircut, or a rosary. They help you identify other members of your faith, and subconsciously remind you of your faith and lessons.

In our first lessons as a Jedi here in the Temple we are introduced to the book "The Power of Myth" (which I only just finished yesterday). But in thee very first chapter we learn of the power of mythology in a occupation. If a judge was just a job, he would go wearing a suit and tie, not magisterial robes. Yes, the robes are tied to the movies, and we may be mocked for wearing them. But so do some more physically prevalent religions with their dress codes in less understanding societies. We are not yet understood, and many take this Jediism thing as a joke, and with understanding they will grow to understand the robe.

They are a symbol, and a powerful one indeed. Are they also awesome? Yes. Yes indeed, but that is only a perk. I think if one wishes to wear the robes of a Jedi, they should go ahead, but be mindful of the ever watchful eyes of the public. Their interactions with the public will shape how society will view us for many years to come. Also, I would recommend using common decency. Is the hood amazing? Yes. But take it off when indoors, like one would remove a hat.

As for Lightsabres, they are also a symbol. But are they necessary? The Sikh's carry a kirpan,, a ceremonial knife, one of five symbols of faith that they must wear at all times. As a Jedi is a warrior-monks, the Sikh are saint-soldiers. Their kirpan is a symbol of faith, and the lightsabre can be the same thing. Do I see a reason to walk around with the blade attached? Not really, unless you're going to a gathering or a charity event (where people may want to see the lightsabres in all their glory. Other than that, I personally believe it being attached to the belt more than adequate.

This is just my personal take on the matter. A simple hoodie could act as a robe. I'm personally having a robe made for me at the moment, and I cannot wait to put it on for the first time. I'll probably fall in love with it and commission a second.

I don't hold with priestly robes and icons. (I live in a desert - Arguably bedouin style robes would be suitable for me, but they might make by job a bit more difficult )

Tsst.

The Robes (of SW Myth) are a symbol of unity and simplicity and humility- Much like Christian or other monk robes.

That's fine and good, with the exception of the unity part, this can easily be achieved with any wardrobe - Purchase (or make) your clothes to suit the aesthetic and carry on (A distinction here between "humble" and "cheap" - My clothes are not the cheapest I can buy, but they are locally manufactured with local materials - this strikes me as the better path than low-dollar-value imported stuff from across the world, I don't have anything against the other side of the world, but I don't see a reason to buy from there where I can just as easily support my more immediate community)

As for the Sabre -
it became a symbol to others as Jedi carried it.

No one here has ever protected justice with a lightsabre (I'll be surprised if I'm wrong), so to use it as a symbol requires some explanation, and therefore it doesn't really work as a symbol.

I'm not into "tokens", but a pendant or something for Jediism may make more sense than a Sabre hilt.

I am reminded of the modern movie remake (96?) of Romeo and Juliet, where the feuding parties carried 9mm pistols engraved with the words "Sword", "Rapier" and "Dagger"

I'm not suggesting Jedi carry 9mms in place of Sabres, but that's basically what carrying a sword amounts to these days.

If in your country it is legal to carry a weapon, and you feel it aligns with your purpose as a Jedi, then by all means do so - but as a Temple, I would argue we go another way, and if some sort of Icon or Symbol is desired, something else be promoted for public display.





Edit to ramble a bit more: Looking at "Jedi Cosplay" - A lot of people "sex up" their Jedi attire - To show cleavage, leg, biceps, whatever they think is sexy, or add a bunch of pointless straps and wotzits- That is probably missing the point of the robes (which is fine, they're cosplayers, they can do what they want, I'm just using it as an example)

(I feel) a Jedi's dress should be simple, modest, neat and clean, and honestly "in sync" with the culture they are currently living/staying in.

I'm inclined to feel the same way about Hairstyles, makeup, and use of accessories* - but whether than is Jedi or my other assorted Beliefs kicking in, it's hard for me to say.

*This includes Ties.
I have no time for Ties at all.

I wanted to edit again - but apparently there is a window?


Anyway - Another rambling point - Part of the point of the Sabre was that the Jedi make it themselves, a demonstration of their focus, knowledge (and courage? something about the crystals being hard to get?)

Anyway, given that we don't have access to the crystals, or the ability to make lightsabres, again the symbol is mostly pointless.

Making something is a good sign of knowledge and discipline, but we are all different trades here - One person might have the craft to make a knife, another might make shoes, and another might make excellent spreadsheets, or apps, or be able to schedule flights and appointments like you wouldn't believe, or brew the best coffee this side of Hyde Park.


So given there is no one way (and I doubt the Temple will enforce a particular skillset?) to show our "completion" of study, carrying an item doesn't do much for the faith.

The temple could issue (sell) pendants or the like to it's Knights and so on - at the very least it would give someone the opportunity to ask "What does that mean?" and they can introduce them to the Jedi way, and it makes Jedi of this temple identifiable to others.


The usual sort of thing - a Bronze one that any Jedi can buy - a Silver one you can buy if you've become an initiate, Gold if you've become a Knight, Platinum if you've become a Master.


Again, I'm not for it in general - but it makes more sense than buying and wearing a sabre hilt.


Edit: some more self indulgent rambling:

I am a fan of robes in general. If it were socially acceptable for me to wear a big black or brown travelling cloak I totally would. But that's as much a Lord of the Rings/Harry Potter/D&D/eight thousand other things as it is a Star Wars thing. I also wish the US had larger denominations of coin money because I think its cooler to pay for stuff that way. None of it's about Jediism, it's just about thinking that it's awesome.

If it's any inspiration - I wear a shin-length duster coat and pay for everything in cash - but that's because more because I'm a coot who dun't trust them swipey magic money cards or new fangled polyester mat-err-eee-alls than for reasons of faith (Some would say my hatred of polyester borders on religious, or madness, but they're probably gov'mint pawns, trying to get inta my brain)

I forgot my next bit.

Edit: Not what I had originally, but something else
As for the debate on the Name Jedi - I am trying to recall something from a long time ago - and interview with George Lucas perhaps, on how he came up with Jedi?
There was something about the origin of the name in another language?

I will access the archives and mediate (read: wiki the hell out of it).

Well, apparently it just comes from a Japanese word for "historic drama", so that's not much help.



Another Edit:

A thought for those who feel stigmatised by Roleplaying associations and the like -
While I agree in principle that some sort of separation is required from "Star Wars Fandom" to "Jedi Faithers", I want it to be for the right reasons - Ie, not hating nerds


Back in the early 90s was a magical time to be alive - MP3s, text messages, the internet, PDAs - All this was new and weird and I loved it. I took to it like a duck to water - and I paid for that, in the ways that societies make you pay for embracing something strange.

Now, how many of you carry Smartphones and have your calenders, music, friends, and whole lives based in "the cloud"?

The teachings of Joseph Campbell may predate all this Jedi business - but the Star Wars fans with the robes and their carrying-on - They saw something and embraced it, and I have no doubt many of them have paid for it in various ways.

To dismiss them as detracting from your status or use of Jedi to describe your faith decades later is unjust.

(I've never owned a lightsabre, it was never "my thing" - But I'll pay my respects to the Star Wars fandom, to the New-Age religions, to the Gamers, as much as to the ancient religions and philosophers who brought us to where we are today - They as much as anyone have made it so you can walk into a room and say "I'm a Jedi" or "I'm a Wiccan" or "I'm a Neo-Nihilist-Satanic-Druid")

To add to the charms discussion I wear 2 items currently, a pendant around my necklace I found on amazon from some chinese store, I had to replace the necklace itself with a beaded one because I mean hey it was like 8 bucks the quality was very lacking, but I like the pendant none the less. I also wear a slider ring that reads "MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU".

Robes and Sabers are, in my opinion, important during Ceremonies. As others have mentioned. They are a symbol of Unity. Just like other religions (And spiritual practices) their uniforms of service are worn to not only display their faith, but to stand together as equal/the same.

As organizer and attendant to many offline Jedi Gatherings....There is something to be said towards a ceremony, a thing of spiritual celebration, when everyone present are wearing matching robes and clean garb, holding their sabers high in salute. It has a tone of equal respect Vs the mish mash of unorganized modern garb with star wars paraphernalia hanging about that makes the ceremony look like some star wars comedy show.

Individually.....it is individual. Wear. Don't. Dosn't matter.

I have robes, and will be making my own Just Jedi outfit soon-ish. I enjoy it personally, and they are often more comfortable/warm than jeans

As organizer and attendant to many offline Jedi Gatherings....There is something to be said towards a ceremony, a thing of spiritual celebration, when everyone present are wearing matching robes and clean garb, holding their sabers high in salute. It has a tone of equal respect Vs the mish mash of unorganized modern garb with star wars paraphernalia hanging about that makes the ceremony look like some star wars comedy show.

Cermonies with robes and [strike]matching decoder rings [/strike]sabres seem more like an odd cult than a community of people devoted to service to mankind.

The intent of robes is to "dress down" - Robes are no longer a sign of a simple life - they are an expensive costume you have to go out of your way to find.

Having said that....

There *is* a benefit to uniforms (psychologically) - But that's a slightly different question

not "Are Robes and Sabres important to the faith" but
"is a uniform and recognition of being "entitled" to wear it of benefit to members of the Jedi Path"

maybe it is?

I'm happy not to wear a uniform, but others without a "group" might very well desire to have a solid link to the "Jedi Temple" through being able to wear "The Uniform" (whatever it may be)

(I still think a pendant or the like meets that need in a more subtle way)


Edit: Just found the TOTJO Cafepress store - Well look at that, I can get Jedi panties, Coffee Mugs, and Golf Balls :pinch:

JamesSand wrote: Cermonies with robes and [strike]matching decoder rings [/strike]sabres seem more like an odd cult than a community of people devoted to service to mankind.

Not sure I see how that is a bad thing :dry:

The intent of robes is to "dress down"

Actually in Star Wars there were many more reasons for the robes than just "Dressing Down" Robes were used in ceremonies and were also a symbol of commitment. See Jedi Path (pg 20-21) "Your uniform defines you. Wear it well and wear it with pride. When you sleep, fold it and place it at the foot of your mat. When you sweat through it after lightsaber training, wash it. When your boots are scuffed, polish them. Dont ask the droid to do it: Polish them yourself. A dirty or wrinkled uniform will get ou reprimanded from your instructors, but if thats your only reason for taking care of one of your sole possessions, you dont appreciate what you have here in the temple. ---- Alway remember that being a Jedi also means looking the part. Your attire is an outward ign of your commitment, and constant reminder of your lifelong calling."

The point is.

A: Ceremonies are supposed to be private affairs within the community and group it represents (not displayed all over media save for select purposes)

B: Who the f*** cares what other people think? I don't.

- Robes are no longer a sign of a simple life - they are an expensive costume you have to go out of your way to find.

For you perhaps There are many of us who use the search and building process as part of the Journey to becoming a Jedi. We see them more than just costumes. Again. We don't care what others think. I don't at least.

Having said that....

There *is* a benefit to uniforms (psychologically) - But that's a slightly different question

not "Are Robes and Sabres important to the faith" but
"is a uniform and recognition of being "entitled" to wear it of benefit to members of the Jedi Path"

maybe it is?

Just depends on the group you are apart of. It might not be for TOTJO. But it is for other groups If ceremonies are part of the 'Faith' and the standard requirement of said Ceremony is to dress the part. Then it is of importance.

I'm happy not to wear a uniform

And that is Awesome!!

but others without a "group" might very well desire to have a solid link to the "Jedi Temple" through being able to wear "The Uniform" (whatever it may be)

(I still think a pendant or the like meets that need in a more subtle way)


Edit: Just found the TOTJO Cafepress store - Well look at that, I can get Jedi panties, Coffee Mugs, and Golf Balls :pinch:

Most folks just purchases one of Kit's Patches I still need to get mine......

Not sure I see how that is a bad thing

I suppose it's not, inherently - but when a group of people have more faith in the symbols of an organisation than the methods and acts of it - well, that's how most "Big Evil" stories start.

"Your uniform defines you. Wear it well and wear it with pride. When you sleep, fold it and place it at the foot of your mat. When you sweat through it after lightsaber training, wash it. When your boots are scuffed, polish them. Dont ask the droid to do it: Polish them yourself. A dirty or wrinkled uniform will get ou reprimanded from your instructors, but if thats your only reason for taking care of one of your sole possessions, you dont appreciate what you have here in the temple. ---- Alway remember that being a Jedi also means looking the part. Your attire is an outward ign of your commitment, and constant reminder of your lifelong calling."

I think they said something similar at boy scouts - Uniforms and pride in appearance are part of training any "corps", be it Jedi, or Shelf-Stackers at Walmart - I acknowledge that as a concept, but don't see it as proof that the robes and tunics of star wars need to be tied to Jediism. - I believe the above teaches to "appreciate what you have" - your simple, functional clothes.

Let's say I start a Jedi Temple, and I offer all my apprentices Jeans and a T-shirt, as the "simple clothes" of my era and planet - This is what they have to learn to appreciate - No Volcom, no Diesel, no Oakleys, no Baby-Doll Ts with "Kiss me, It's Labour Day" no Pokemon Go.

I don't believe Jediism is a path of strict ascetics, but knowing what to appreciate and what is non-essential is part of it.

B: Who the f*** cares what other people think? I don't.

Yes, I understand that's considered a virtue by some.
My understanding of the Jedi path is serving the community and society - I'm not sure a bumper sticker that says "bite me" is conducive to that.

Being a slave to popularity is not the ideal, obviously, but total disregard for your impact on others is as much a vice in the other direction - the Force is the Balance between the two.
Caring and acting for the benefit of others, without letting their views detract from your own wellbeing.

For you perhaps There are many of us who use the search and building process as part of the Journey to becoming a Jedi. We see them more than just costumes. Again. We don't care what others think. I don't at least.

I gave my thoughts on the virtue of skill and discipline in hand crafting earlier, and I have all the respect in the world for those who make their own clothing (Saving up for clothing is another skill I suppose, though I don't know if "prudent with wealth" is classically in the realm of Jedi and Jedi related paths)


Anyway, since you quote the Jedi Path - When young Jedi were taken to the temple - they were stripped of all the benefits of their original Family and Community - the Robes were a gift from the temple - it identified them as a part of a new Family, and gave them something small to learn to appreciate (as I alluded to earlier in this post)
Gaining Robes, for yourself, on top of all you already have is contradictory to that tradition.

Cermonies with robes and matching decoder rings sabres seem more like an odd cult than a community of people devoted to service to mankind.

Well, I think perhaps if that bothers you, you would also be bothered with the pseudo-religious aspect this community represents.

A clergy, a doctrine(actually called a doctrine) etc.

So, I dont think it will be the robes and sabers that makes someone think this is a weird cult if thats what they are going to think.

As I recall, the members of heavens gate looked rather snazzy in their purple and black that they got all dressed up in for their final trip on the comet out...

:evil:

Safe journeys.