Jedi Believe, death penalty section

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07 Jan 2016 21:54 #219906 by MadHatter

Reliah wrote: Would there be a way of preventing this from being an issue in the first place?
What I'm trying to ask is if there is a way to help prevent serious crime from happening in the first place and if that should be the area of focus?

I realize we already have the issue of the death penalty currently, but is there a way to prevent that from being the case in the future? Is it "too late" for that type of thing?

I will state that I am also against the death penalty if that matters with my asking these questions.

Preventing crime wouldn't ever be 100%, but I wonder if preventative measures could help.


When it comes to prevention this is a matter of education and community building. Most crimes are those of desperation for some key item or another. Be that item money, acceptance, love, or a sense of power and belonging. Building our communities so we help and educate each other would go a long way to preventing a lot of crime. Further this with proper mental health care availability and we get even better. The final step is ensuring our government is not wasting our tax dollars that should be going to social programs on unjust and unnecessary projects and conflicts.

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07 Jan 2016 22:26 - 07 Jan 2016 22:28 #219914 by
Hello and i apologize for the interruption/intervention to the discussion.
Personally i am strongly against death penalty, but that is just my opinion and i do not wish to participate in the discussion.
I just noticed that this video, was uploaded today by a Youtuber with the name "Rob Dyke" and maybe it can be useful to the discussion, (if not i apologize for your time).
Best Regards.
Robert.

Last edit: 07 Jan 2016 22:28 by .

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08 Jan 2016 00:07 #219935 by Adder

Ion Eldor wrote:

Adder wrote: putting someone to death has no advantage over jailing someone for life


Jailing someone for life make no sense. The point of imprisonment is rehabilitation .


I was talking about the folk lined up for the death penalty! I did mention rehab in my post later on. :)

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08 Jan 2016 00:37 - 08 Jan 2016 00:38 #219943 by
I do not believe it will be gone in a few years, and full prisons are still a problem. Preventing people to go to prison, by educating them would ensure less full prisons. That would benefit death row prisoners in the long term?

~ Aqua
Last edit: 08 Jan 2016 00:38 by .

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08 Jan 2016 01:23 #219967 by
I think that the death penalty is simply pragmatic. Keeping prisoners for long/lifetime periods is expensive, surely torturous to the prisoner, and potentially dangerous for other inmates. We don't have to like killing, and surely we should not, but we should also not make the mistake of thinking that their lives have value in such a scenario. I am not saying that not everyone has potential, I am saying that these people have been condemned to uselessness by obtaining a lifetime sentence already. Surely it is more humane to allow death.

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08 Jan 2016 02:04 #219976 by
I am not for nor against Death Penalty. I live in a country where you can't be in prison for over 30 years at a time, so the idea here is/was really that everyone could be rehabilitated, doesn't matter how bad was your crime.

That said, prisons in Brazil are horrible, just poor people stay inside prisons, while the rich ones can have a "prison at home" situation (don't know how you call that in English).

The system here works more to form better criminals than better citizens. Being inside a prison is like becoming a trainee for the Mafia. And that's unfortunate. I think the roots to solve these problem would be to start with education, then work towards making prisoners active part of the society, like working in constructions, etc, and then helping to integrate ex-prisoners into the society, with an tax incentive program for companies that employ them, etc.

That said, I'd prefer to be killed than to be imprisoned for life. If you country is one that allows both death and life sentence, I think it's more human to apply the death than to keep them for life. Moreover, it's cheaper.

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08 Jan 2016 02:21 - 08 Jan 2016 02:22 #219983 by Locksley
Rehabilitation should be a priority, death penalty is the product of an antiquated mindset and should be abolished. Just my very brief 2 cents. Personally it's one of the few parts of the main doctrine I really appreciate.

We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away. -- J. Michael Straczynski, Babylon 5

Last edit: 08 Jan 2016 02:22 by Locksley.
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08 Jan 2016 02:48 #219992 by
Death by law can not be turned back, only be prevented per case. It is quite a hard choice, how do people deal with it? If one would feel sorry, he or she can not change it back.

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08 Jan 2016 03:35 - 08 Jan 2016 03:54 #220003 by OB1Shinobi

magmon wrote: I think that the death penalty is simply pragmatic. Keeping prisoners for long/lifetime periods is expensive, surely torturous to the prisoner, and potentially dangerous for other inmates. We don't have to like killing, and surely we should not, but we should also not make the mistake of thinking that their lives have value in such a scenario. I am not saying that not everyone has potential, I am saying that these people have been condemned to uselessness by obtaining a lifetime sentence already. Surely it is more humane to allow death.


you should go back a couple pages

the death penalty in the usa is more expensive than life in prison

only people who cant afford decent lawyers get the death penalty and there is a great degree of confirmed racism in the sentencing

im not sure "mercy" is a justifiable defense for killing people


EDIT

and also there is a not-insignificant number of people who have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to have been innocent of the crime for which they were sentenced to death

People are complicated.
Last edit: 08 Jan 2016 03:54 by OB1Shinobi.
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10 Jan 2016 19:05 #220694 by

you should go back a couple pages

the death penalty in the usa is more expensive than life in prison

only people who cant afford decent lawyers get the death penalty and there is a great degree of confirmed racism in the sentencing

im not sure "mercy" is a justifiable defense for killing people


EDIT

and also there is a not-insignificant number of people who have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to have been innocent of the crime for which they were sentenced to death


I did a reasonable amount of research on this, as you did bring to my attention some interesting points I had missed. In terms of expense, it is truly interesting how little information is freely available. Opponents of the death sentence love to tout how costly it is, but how costly is maintenance of a regular inmate? Hard to find, that. However, if you'd be so kind as to look here , we'll find some unfortunately old data. Nonetheless, it does help to make a point. For certain offenders whom are under a certain age, the death penalty is cheaper. It does vary depending upon the location of their offense, as we see a large degree of variance in the cost of maintaining prisoners across the nation, but I'll do some math for us. (Assuming the death penalty costs an average of 3 million). An offender in 2009's price structure in California is cheaper to execute if they will live no less than 64 years from the date of incarceration (42.5 years on the low end of 2 million). Hmm, they'd have to be pretty young. In Colorado's supermax prison, it is cheaper if they will live no more than 50 years (33 1/3 years on the low end of 2 million). Still pretty young, as I don't imagine life expectancy is in the eighties. Guantanamo isn't a fair base for this point, but a prisoner needs only live for 3 1/3 years before execution is cheaper.

But of course, that's the average cost. The high end outliers are elderly prisoners.

"The National Institute of Corrections said the annual cost of incarcerating prisoners age 55 and older with chronic and terminal illnesses is an average of two to three times the expense for all other inmates, particularly younger ones. More recently, other researchers have found that the cost differential may be wider."

This cuts the number of years post needing healthcare down significantly.

So, while in some cases, given an inmate has perfect health and doesn't live too long, it is cheaper to imprison them for life. The simple truth is that there are too many variables to nail down whether or not an individual will be more cost effective one way or another.

But, I stand by that it is more humane. Have you seen anything on the push for the legality of doctor assisted suicide? It's mainly for those with terminal illness, but mercy sure does seem like a good justification for them. So why not inmates?

On the topic of racism affecting sentencing, we already know about all of that. However, it's interesting to me that the black man may be sentenced to death, which I assert is more humane, and a white man may get LWOP, which is surely the long and torturous route.

I understand my opinion is unpopular, just tossing in my two cents. I am not one to do so without certainty in the validity of those pennies, though, my friend.

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