Jedi Believe, death penalty section

Kitsu Tails wrote: But people like Isis who participate in mass killings (enjoying it I might add) Id kill them in a heart beat. They are harmful to keep alive, they don't deserve a single ounce of my money charity or otherwise, and they take up space and time when they don't deserve a single breathe of it.

This made me think of one of my absolute favorite lines from the show Firefly, which pretty much sum up my views on executions.

Malcolm Reynolds wrote: If I kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.

As I stated above, I will use lethal force if I find it necessary to defend my life or the life of my loved ones at that moment. But I will not murder someone who is not actively trying to kill me at that moment.

An interesting look into the inherent problems with the U.S. justice system is all over the news right now. I would highly recommend watching the documentary "Making a Murderer" on Netflix. It's the story of a prisoner who was exonerated by DNA evidence after 18 years in prison, only to commit murder after his release (he was found guilty, though not without controversy). A Google search of it will show you just how muddy a prosecution can become and how divided the opinions have become about a case. This isn't even a capital case. It shows how difficult it can be when people and egos are involved.

death penalty = justice or revenge? I believe in lobotomy and a life time of harmless service to the public.

Ok I am personally against the death penalty only because I don't trust the states wisdom in running such a thing. Nor do I trust that all people get a fair trial. However I do feel the crimes of rape and murder worthy of instant death. There is no other punishment fitting of such crimes in my eyes.

However some statements made just made me laugh or cringe. The first one being that everyone can be redeemed and maybe we should show ISIS their tactic go nowhere. Some people are rabid animals that only respect force. Because the brutal truth is force WORKS. Their tactics ARE gaining them the control they seek until they are shut down with greater force from those that stand against such cruelty.

The second is that state execution is proof of the failure of the second amendment. That is as wise as saying that fire departments are proof of the failure of home fire extinguishers. No its just that some fires are too big or catch us by surprise. Plus not everyone keeps a fire extinguisher in the house. Further you forfeit your right to liberty and life when you attempt to or succeed in taking those things from others.

Some of the views I see in this thread sicken me.

Prison/justice are here to:
-protect people outside the prison
-teach people in the prison how to live outside of it.

If the prison or justice system fail to do that, then the failure is the system's.

When you have the power and resources to make people live according to your rules but would rather save yourself the effort and kill those who don't or can't, you're a murdering asshole.
I know that in the US you are used to having cops who kill the innocent, guilty, armed and unarmed alike, but surely you can switch the TV off and figure out that the guy sitting down in a heated courthouse at a desk worth more than what you earn in a month can do better than what a bunch of cops(or soldiers, as someone mentioned war) being shot at with automatic rifles have to do in order to survive.

The continued incidences of miscarriages of justice in cases involving murder charges are all you need to know the death penalty introduces problems and offers no solutions.

I believe in the doctrine of this Temple. I hold life sacred whether the person is deemed "evil" or, "good" its their deeds that are not the person. A drug addict when they're stealing from a store to supply their habits is it really the person? No, its the drugs and his actions. When he is incarcerated in jail for his deed he is sober and in his right mind.

Again, I do not agree with the death penalty nor will I ever. Ask yourself this by killing a murder for killing your loved one is that justice? In my belief and this might be a bit blunt but, you, the judge, the jury are standing there ALL murderers just like him your no different now. Really, what right do we have to take someone else's life? We don't. My opinion in the US the courts are corrupt and need Reformation. Here in WA alone they just released a couple thousand inmates outta jail early by "Accident" lol...someone wasn't paying attention.

Another thing, don't misunderstand my position on bad deeds do require consequences for their crime but, not something as servere as the death penalty, maybe life incarcerated from society but, not murdered. A life for a life does not equal a right or, two wrongs don't make a right.

Rickie wrote: death penalty = justice or revenge? I believe in lobotomy and a life time of harmless service to the public.

FYI No , , I'm serious.

i just want to address the idea of rehabilitation: i dont think america tries very hard to rehabilitate its inmates

what "the system" usually means when it talks of rehabilitation is that it operates under the assumption that if they treat you badly enough, you wont want to come back - thats how they rehabilitate you: by making you miserable, constantly

twhen people get out, they are often stronger, more aggressive, better informed and networked as criminals, but no more prepared to interact in a positive way with society to begin with and no more resolved of the issues which motivated their initial crimes

there certainly are cases to be found of people who rehabilitate in prison

if the recidivism rate is 40% (which it is in usa) then 60% of prisoners DONT return

that, statistically, could be called rehabilitation

but of that number, many (not all) of those who get out and integrate with society in a healthy way (as opposed to just not getting caught again and dying of an overdose or being murdered or living on the streets for the rest of their lives) do so IN SPITE of their prison terms, more than as a result of them imo

OB1Shinobi wrote: i just want to address the idea of rehabilitation: i dont think america tries very hard to rehabilitate its inmates

what "the system" usually means when it talks of rehabilitation is that it operates under the assumption that if they treat you badly enough, you wont want to come back - thats how they rehabilitate you: by making you miserable, constantly

twhen people get out, they are often stronger, more aggressive, better informed and networked as criminals, but no more prepared to interact in a positive way with society to begin with and no more resolved of the issues which motivated their initial crimes

there certainly are cases to be found of people who rehabilitate in prison

if the recidivism rate is 40% (which it is in usa) then 60% of prisoners DONT return

that, statistically, could be called rehabilitation

but of that number, many (not all) of those who get out and integrate with society in a healthy way (as opposed to just not getting caught again and dying of an overdose or being murdered or living on the streets for the rest of their lives) do so IN SPITE of their prison terms, more than as a result of them imo

I am not always in agreement with your posts but this is spot on. We need a better way then misery to fix this. However I do think there needs to be a period of misery for crimes because punishments SHOULD by nature not be fun or easily handled. Possibly a boot camp style situation for a period of their term. Not sure if it would work but its the only idea that came to mind for something that would suck but not be overly cruel.

Would there be a way of preventing this from being an issue in the first place?
What I'm trying to ask is if there is a way to help prevent serious crime from happening in the first place and if that should be the area of focus?

I realize we already have the issue of the death penalty currently, but is there a way to prevent that from being the case in the future? Is it "too late" for that type of thing?

I will state that I am also against the death penalty if that matters with my asking these questions.

Preventing crime wouldn't ever be 100%, but I wonder if preventative measures could help.