Suicide

It’s been brought up in other threads, suicide. Assisted suicide was talked about in one thread and then in another, dying for your country became a suicide conversation. :huh:

We have had threads on this before but as time passes there are new groups, new members and new points of view. So I ask; should you have the right to kill yourself if you want? :S

I guess there are a few points to consider when contemplating this particular subject. Is your life yours and yours alone? Does your death only affect you? How did you gain the ability to see into the future and learn that there was no longer anything worth living for? :ohmy:

I have heard people say before that no one would care if they killed themselves. That is so untrue. As harsh as this is about to sound, and it is not meant to be harsh or funny, but seriously, think about the poor person that has to clean you up once your remains have been discovered. Seriously, I am not trying to be funny at all. I had to clean up the remains of someone I loved very dearly after their body had been in a house for a couple of weeks. I could go into details but it’s really not appropriate or needed. :blink:

I could type out my thoughts on this, but they would be so incredibly bitter and full of hate, that the thread would likely turn into a flame war and get shut down.

So, I will summarize.

We are willing to euthanize animals suffering from the smallest of things, but people in unimaginable pain are forced to continue to live, because someone else doesn't want to feel sad.

Kohadre wrote: We are willing to euthanize animals suffering from the smallest of things, but people in unimaginable pain are forced to continue to live, because someone else doesn't want to feel sad.

That is an interesting assumption you’ve made on everyone’s behalf.

And I am not referring to assisted suicide. This is not about ending suffering of a terminally ill patient. There is a whole other thread for that.

In fact, I did not help my dog end it peacefully till there was nothing else that could be done. And he was very old and riddled with cancer. And I saw to it that his last couple of years were as comfortable and relaxing as they could be.

And even if it is emotional pain you are referring to, there are always people to help the person heal and find joy in life again.

It is right to live when it is time to live, and right to die, when its time to die....

Wescli, not taking anything from that, but that death you touched on was inconsiderate of the person who killed them self..

No offence, just discussion....

When I discuss assisted suicide, I mean "right action"...

Personal matters brought to a close... Loved ones discussed with... Being considerate....

Etc....

You dont have to agree, although it will be easier for you (metaphorical you) if you do, you just have to accept....

Sorry, I see your second post...

Wescli Wardest wrote:

Kohadre wrote: We are willing to euthanize animals suffering from the smallest of things, but people in unimaginable pain are forced to continue to live, because someone else doesn't want to feel sad.

That is an interesting assumption you’ve made on everyone’s behalf.

And I am not referring to assisted suicide. This is not about ending suffering of a terminally ill patient. There is a whole other thread for that.

In fact, I did not help my dog end it peacefully till there was nothing else that could be done. And he was very old and riddled with cancer. And I saw to it that his last couple of years were as comfortable and relaxing as they could be.

And even if it is emotional pain you are referring to, there are always people to help the person heal and find joy in life again.

Less of an assumption and more personal experience.

True, but euthanasia is not suicide. Although it has been a matter for much debate, there have been human euthanasia cases (legal and illegal, naturally) and in most of these cases, it has been quite merciful. Regardless of an ensuing murder charge ...

Suicide is much different though, and a difficult concept to defend ethically. Much of it reposes on the debate surrounding "self-ownership" -- a position which I cannot defend, that we own our bodies - as though our physical bodies were a form of property. They are not ...

Now that doesn't mean that our bodies are "public" or "common" property either. Human bodies are not "property" at all. I'm not a staunch materialist, but I do not find grounds to regard the human body as simply the 'Soul's vehicle' either. I would consider this "property" question to be a huge category error.

Where I feel that the moral and ethical conundrum from is in the value that we accord to Life (and not restricting that to Human Life). Personally, I feel that suicide is a social problem, as I feel that most mental illness is ... It seems that other values we have accorded - especially ones revolving around 'property' and distributive Justice, or what someone "deserves" compared to what we are constantly telling ourselves and being told is "good" - are at the source of much of what screws us up in the indivisible (physically, mentally, emotionally ...) arena we call "health".

I do not believe that we have a "right" to kill ourselves. I also do not believe that we have a "right" to many things which are commonly regarded as basic liberties. And it is this latter which gives rise to much of what we call "depression" on the clinical level.

In short, it isn't a "right". If some individuals kill themselves, it is simply an effect of Society killing itself at the macro- level. We mourn or complain that an apple has 'jumped' out of the tree while failing to recognise that the whole tree has an aggravated case of blight ...

I woke up this morning, and like every morning before it for roughly seven years I did my usually routine involving meditation and yoga practice. I end each daily session by saying thanks for all the things in my life, in some attempt to not take it for granted. Tonight I watched this young lady on the Nightly News http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/why-newlywed-brittany-maynard-ending-her-life-three-weeks-n221731 talk about her plans at suicide in three weeks. I shake my head at the realization that I do take everything for granted.

I think the problem is when you get to the point that suicide seems the only option, you find justification for the act. For the mess. You may even make every attempt not to leave too much mess. Sometimes control over this body, over death may feel like the only control you have over life. It's a selfish act but done for what you think is for the best, for everyone you leave behind.
Your trying to make things better because it seems that all the problems are because of you. Therefore if you remove yourself life will be better for those left. I know it's crazy logic but the act isn't done to hurt others.
Your life is yours to live how you wish, why shouldn't your death be too?
You don't see into the future, you see now and how your life is affecting others and you remove what you see as the obstacle to your family's, friends happiness.. Which is you

Wescli Wardest wrote: So I ask; should you have the right to kill yourself if you want? :S

I guess there are a few points to consider when contemplating this particular subject. Is your life yours and yours alone? Does your death only affect you? How did you gain the ability to see into the future and learn that there was no longer anything worth living for?

Are we discussing suicide as a "life" choice or the result of mental illness? The two scenarios are vastly different, in my opinion, as someone who's seen both at work.