Ghosts/spirits?

Avalonslight wrote: LOL I think, if I remember correctly, I was only 10 or so at the time and was very, very much into Pokemon. I remember explaining it away to myself as it was just a Gastly. (Honestly, that's what I remember it looking like too.) In hindsight, yeah. . .had I been older, I probably would've been unnerved too. I guess that's just the bliss of childhood! Then again, it never did anything but...float around.

AHahahahahahaha Gastly! I love it! I think we as adults try to see too much into things where children just KNOW. And I don't mean blind acceptance, because there were plenty of things as a kid that I felt were wrong! And who knows maybe it was just some spirit wanting to watch out for you and wanted you to know it, or wanted you to know it was there for you, so it showed itself in the form it thought you would be comfortable with and could relate to

Kamizu wrote: I think we as adults try to see too much into things where children just KNOW.

This is one of the main reasons that the metaphor of child-like-ness runs throughout both religion and art as a high virtue.

I'm trying to be open minded here. I really want to get to the bottom of this "ghost" phenomenon. I've already acknowledged my own experience of the "shadows on the wall" phenomena and the "books fall off a shelf for no reason" phenomena and a few others. But you know, honestly, I've never had the "talking to someone who's not there" phenomena. I think it's important to think about this because Jediism is a religion and people come here looking for answers to these questions. So maybe they come and read these forums and see that everyone is taking this "social smoker" approach to ghosts like, "well If you saw a ghost then I saw a ghost". haha

Two things about audio is coming to mind:

1) In the IP, Campbell talks about how the Native American Indians handling the teenager who was hearing voices. The Shaman recognized a shaman and how that was nutured.

2) In the IP, Watts notes that sound is the sense at the deepest level of subconscious

In the physical visual sense . . . the words ghosts/spirits/apparitions/appearances, i.e, what the eyes see . . .mean exactly the same to me in terms of the physical eyes are looking at something.

Although, I can close my eyes and see those same things.

At times, I have associated the same set of four words with disembodied spirits and outer realms. That moves thought into ideas of "things" outside of self. A journey of exploration unto itself. I don't always know how to name this type of thing. I remain teachable and openminded.

The journey of the human spirit is common to us all. It may or may not include the discussion of spirits, but it does hit on all of the theme lines that Campbell talks about in the journey.

When I think of the Force. I think of the matrix and quantum physics. The interconnectivity of all that is.

When I think of the spiritual journey . . I think of our exploration of the unseen, as humans, in a life.

When I think of living a spiritual life . . I think of the application of Teachings and Maxims in my life combined with learning from the masters or those that come before me in time or in experience . . most of all, I try to remain teachable and openminded.

I have done a lot of self-study into many fields on the journey. I have no personal definations of truth or reality. Perhaps it is all valid in some way . . . depends on the plane. . . .

o.k. . so i went on and on . . this is what i am experiencing with this discussion. . . now . .

very grateful we can talk about these things here

Whyte Horse wrote: I'm trying to be open minded here. I really want to get to the bottom of this "ghost" phenomenon. I've already acknowledged my own experience of the "shadows on the wall" phenomena and the "books fall off a shelf for no reason" phenomena and a few others. But you know, honestly, I've never had the "talking to someone who's not there" phenomena. I think it's important to think about this because Jediism is a religion and people come here looking for answers to these questions. So maybe they come and read these forums and see that everyone is taking this "social smoker" approach to ghosts like, "well If you saw a ghost then I saw a ghost". haha

I don’t have issues with you Whyte Horse. I can see your well-meaning concern and that you are trying to understand. THAT I can appreciate it, no matter the conclusion you come to I guess I was a little too quick to say “I want no arguments” lol.

If you want, here’s a bit better explanation of what I mean. I don’t really have an answer to WHY these things happen or HOW but I can offer my experience.

When I was young (early teen and under) Most events were experiencing emotions that I had no reason to feel that way (something akin to fear without actually being afraid). Once, I heard voices that sounded like five to ten people standing in the hallway whispering to each other. I’ve smelled incense where there shouldn’t be those smells that always corresponded with that fear-but-not-fear feeling. And simply the KNOWLEDGE that SOMETHING else was there in an empty room. These examples were all while I’m wide awake and I have hunted for sources in most cases and many I discounted as mundane occurrences, but others I could not. When I came to tell my stories to my mom, I remember her being shocked, especially when I described the incense I smelled. I had no way of knowing, but my great grandma was buried with rose, and mom’s best friend was buried with honeysuckle. These were the scents I remember most, at different times repeatedly. When I started asking questions of these entities, all I could get in response were feelings. So I could play the “Yes/No” game mostly.

NOW we’re getting into my current personal beliefs. I guess I should explain my personal definitions. Spirits are the unseen life of the world, be it human, animal, plant, fey, elf, angel, and the many tricksters. Ghosts are those human spirits that manifest themselves in a physical way (heard voices, shadows, whisps, full manifestations) Kind of a grey area because there are many non-human spirits that like to mess with people too.

I intentionally seek conversation within meditations/journeys of spirits. Granted most of the spirits I connect with are the animal spirits. I have also had a journey and a dream which were initiated by my animal guide. My shamanistic journeys begin by focus, faith, and imagination. (The main components to working with anything magick/spiritual in my opinion). The journeys themselves are almost a dream-like state, where the spirit leaves the body on a journey to one of the unseen worlds. But the information, riddles, and hope I received from them were very real to me. You have to have some belief in an unseen power outside of yourself to understand that this is where I feel this comes from. The journeys are just as external as internal in a way I can’t really describe. So when I talk about having this two-way communication with spirits, it’s not that I’m hearing with my physical ears, or even most of the time seeing with my physical eyes, but an internalized conversation with the natural part of the world we typically cannot see without seeking. My words are said internally. I hear the answers internally, but they are from an external source. When I am in a mostly-conscious state, the words are heard in my head almost as my own thoughts. I have to really inspect those to see if they’re mine or not. When I’m in a meditative state, I hear the words in my heart and soul as an EXPERIENCE. Those I inspect for their lessons. The first time I could identify as a journey, it was as real to me as this keyboard I’m typing on is. I saw the grass I was laying on, I could see the blue sky above me, and the spirit of Fox was as real as my dog and cat are. Some journeys are like that for me. Others are more dream-like feeling. Sometimes I’ll ask for help, information, or to test if my answers to the riddles that were presented to me are correct while I’m in a more conscious state. The answers to those are a few simple words, a feeling, or a quick minor visual in my imagination (such as the spirit’s head nodding). They’re much harder for me to interpret the source (me or them).

I’m sure this is in no way convincing you of my sanity BUT I’ve been to Mental Health before, and it’s a great place to take refuge when needed. My mental/emotional instability results in stress and anxiety. Anymore, I only get panic attacks when I’m off-balance which typically comes from not making the time to journey or at least meditate. So even if it’s trading one insanity for another, I’ll take the spirits over the anxiety

Mareeka wrote: Two things about audio is coming to mind:

1) In the IP, Campbell talks about how the Native American Indians handling the teenager who was hearing voices. The Shaman recognized a shaman and how that was nutured.

2) In the IP, Watts notes that sound is the sense at the deepest level of subconscious

Nice catch! I forgot there were those examples in the IP. I need to go back and watch/hear them again.

Mareeka wrote: At times, I have associated the same set of four words with disembodied spirits and outer realms. That moves thought into ideas of "things" outside of self. A journey of exploration unto itself. I don't always know how to name this type of thing. I remain teachable and openminded.

I’d say you hit the nail on the head. Journey sounds good to me It sounds very similar to my (small) experience in Shamanic Journeys. Typically I’m seeking the help of a spirit BUT there’s all sorts of different kinds of journeys.

Mareeka wrote: o.k. . so i went on and on . . this is what i am experiencing with this discussion. . . now . .

very grateful we can talk about these things here

You’re more than welcome to go on and on I like hearing from you I love these kinds of discussions. I always find something new to learn or a new way to look at things

The writing is some sort of cursive script and fades before I can make it out...naturally I always look for the logical answers first before turning to possible paranormal/supernatural answers ...

I watched a video in philosophy class that discussed a theory in quantum science that spirits/shadow figures are actually alternate versions of ourselves trying to occupy the same space/dimension....

RyuJin wrote: I watched a video in philosophy class that discussed a theory in quantum science that spirits/shadow figures are actually alternate versions of ourselves trying to occupy the same space/dimension....

That needs to be a horror film yesterday.

Lol...

Well it did star marlene matlind...pretty scary stuff there ....a deaf woman can scream pretty loud and not know it...

I actually had a similar experience years ago. This was before I had realized I was a Jedi but I've always been spiritually open and aware. My Nona (grandmother in Italian) had just passed away a few months before, and she and I were very close. I was approaching the end of teacher's college and giving serious thought to what I wanted to do afterwards. I wanted to do my Masters in History, but I was also tempted to pursue an opportunity in Journalism that had just presented itself. When I told my mother this idea, she acted disappointed and urged me to reconsider, saying "but Adam, your MASTERS!" Despite the social prestige though, I've never tied that to education. I've always seen education as first and foremost for self-betterment. Happiness in life has always been most important to me, and I found myself torn among what everyone else wanted for me, with seemingly no room for my own desires.

Well, that night I had an experience that changed things for me. In my dreams, I found myself standing in a beautiful forest by the lake at sunset. Inset into the trees was the church where my Nona's service was held and there she was, standing on the dock! We sat on the steps to the church and talked and I still remember the words she told me;

"You have to live for yourself!"

I realize this is open to interpretation, but I believe it actually was her, since she said it to me in perfect Italian (she never could speak much English). Since then, I've always felt her watching over me, and I've never forgotten her advice. Looking back on it with what I now know, I really did feel the Force with me that night, and I woke up with tears of joy the next morning.

So yes, I definitely believe there are places our conscious energies go after the death of our physical forms. It's like Jedi Master Yoda said in Empire Strikes Back; "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter!"

I truly do believe that.