Catholics Believe Liquid From 'Miracle' Tree is God's Tears -- Arborist Says It's Lice Excrement

ren wrote: Aren't the 10 commandments an old testament thing? And therefore not really christian?

I think the Ten Commandments were ment for everyone? There wern't any christians back then.

One… why do so many people find it so important to discredit another person’s spiritual experience? If I have an experience and it strengthens my spiritual well being, what harm is it causing someone else?

What if I change some of the words.

Why do so many people find it so important to discredit another person’s psychedelic experience? If I have an experience and it strengthens my enjoyment of drugs, what harm is it causing someone else?

or

Why do so many people find it so important to discredit another person’s spiritual experience? If I have an experience and it strengthens my spiritual well being, what harm is it causing someone else? -- Jim Jones, People's Temple.

ren wrote:
What if I change some of the words.

Why do so many people find it so important to discredit another person’s psychedelic experience? If I have an experience and it strengthens my enjoyment of drugs, what harm is it causing someone else?

or

Why do so many people find it so important to discredit another person’s spiritual experience? If I have an experience and it strengthens my spiritual well being, what harm is it causing someone else? -- Jim Jones, People's Temple.

Then you wouldn't be saying what the OP said.

The simplest things can turn into major issues. It starts off with crying trees, next thing you know there's mass killings of lumberjacks and yet another group lobbies for schools to provide an alternative theory in biology classes...

ren wrote: The simplest things can turn into major issues. It starts off with crying trees, next thing you know there's mass killings of lumberjacks and yet another group lobbies for schools to provide an alternative theory in biology classes...

Pretty sure we call that a fallacy.

Which part?

ren wrote:

One… why do so many people find it so important to discredit another person’s spiritual experience? If I have an experience and it strengthens my spiritual well being, what harm is it causing someone else?

What if I change some of the words.

Why do so many people find it so important to discredit another person’s psychedelic experience? If I have an experience and it strengthens my enjoyment of drugs, what harm is it causing someone else?

or

Why do so many people find it so important to discredit another person’s spiritual experience? If I have an experience and it strengthens my spiritual well being, what harm is it causing someone else? -- Jim Jones, People's Temple.

That is interesting and I see the point you’re trying to make.

Still, I don’t see the problem with someone strengthening their own spiritual wellbeing. But, I also don’t think that the person’s spiritual or religious beliefs should be choked down the throats of other people. What I mean by that is, if I have a conviction it should be mine to have. I would not go out and tell everyone to convert because it works for me.

I think that one’s religious and spiritual practices, coupled with the laws of their society, should set guidelines for the individuals understanding of excepted behavior. If I belonged to the church of smoking crack and crack smoking is illegal, then I should expect to have a really bad day when the authorities find out. If I believed that cutting down trees was murder and the laws of my society had set ways of dealing with violations of the law, I should operate within that structure and not take the law into my own hands.

Long story short, in my opinion, using religion as an excuse to do what you want despite the legal and moral aspects of the society one lives in is not acceptable.

And if that is to become the accepted norm, and precedence is made so that exercising religious beliefs supersedes the wellbeing of the people of that society; then I am starting the first church of Wipe That Jerk Out! A religion where it is not only acceptable but it is part of the doctrine, where eliminating scumbags from the face of the Earth expected… and the church will have final say on what qualifies someone as a scumbag.

Hahahahhahahahhahahhahha :woohoo:

Who wants to join?

ren wrote: Which part?

That whole "slippery slope" argument.

But these things actually happen. People kill in the name of religion. People want their religious beliefs to be taught in schools. These things happened a thousand years ago, and they still happen today.

Still, I don’t see the problem with someone strengthening their own spiritual wellbeing. But, I also don’t think that the person’s spiritual or religious beliefs should be choked down the throats of other people.

the thing is, everything you do is "shoved" down other people's throats to some extent. Everything that can possibly influence you, even in the smallest way, does influence you. Freedom of conscience is an illusion, it can never be attained... Since our experience of the world shapes our conscience (morals, values, attitude, taste, etc), and we are responsible, to a large extent, for the experience of others, should we not take great care when we "create" that "experience"?
How do you choose, for example, what is an acceptable influence on your daughter and what isn't? Some people would take worshipping a "false idol" as highly problematic. Not so long ago children would often witness murder, disease, extreme poverty, injustice, cruelty. Yet today I'm sure you wouldn't let your daughter accompany you to a brothel.

How do you choose what is acceptable or not acceptable for others if you did not choose your own beliefs of what is or isn't acceptable yourself?

It is not possible to exist in a society without any influence at all from other people. That is the price you pay for being in group. But there is a difference between living a certain way and forcing your ideas on others.

I think that right now you are making a very unpopular argument that I have made so many times before. Control is an illusion.

Long story short, you can not limit your children’s exposure to the world. All you can do is raise them the best you can, let them learn how to think for themselves, and hope they make good decisions. But everything others do is not shoved down my throat or vice verse. It may feel that way some times but the reality is it is not true.