Catholics Believe Liquid From 'Miracle' Tree is God's Tears -- Arborist Says It's Lice Excrement

After listening to the audio story (http://atheistuniverse.net/group/imaginenoreligion/forum/topics/people-worship-weeping-tree-in-california-tears-are-actually-inse) it looks as though the concept was being used to excite and reinvigorate believers of this church. Another thing that needs to be examined is whether or not the concept of tears are suppose to be tears of joy, or tears of sadness- or both. Surely there was a point to calling them tears, and it was meant to represent something.

This is why I don't particularly like "tears". Cyclones which take the lives of people as an omen makes more sense to me than tears. Even droughts tend to make more sense in terms of a sign. But tears? There are too many ways to interpret tears.

The sell isn't that these drops are tears, but the purpose behind the tears. I don't think they are using it to bring people to their church, but rather to attract people within the church to a cause- be it more praying, better lifestyles, etc is something only the parishioners can answer at this point.

Alethea Thompson wrote: The sell isn't that these drops are tears, but the purpose behind the tears.

I always wonder what motives are the driving factor behind most people's actions; and, the repercussions of action or inaction.

People seem to be predominately emotional creatures, allowing how they feel or how they feel about something dictate their rational. And worst yet, in my opinion, not thinking through the course they intend to follow.

Having an experience and allowing your interpretations of that reinforce your beliefs is probably a pretty good thing in most cases. Taking your interpretation of an event and selling it… can have serious and often unforeseen conclusions.

I don't know, if they are using it to have people pray and connect to God more often, or to change their lifestyle to meet the requirements of the Ten Commandments, then I don't see it as too much of a problem taking it to the masses.

Now telling them to go out and preach to the world that everyone is going to hell because God's Tears are secreting from a tree is an entirely different story. But we don't have a clue what the interpretation is being used for.

Aren't the 10 commandments an old testament thing? And therefore not really christian?

ren wrote: Aren't the 10 commandments an old testament thing? And therefore not really christian?

One thing that I have always found interesting is that many Christians seem to forget that Jesus said…

Mathew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Mathew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
Mathew 5:18
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Mathew 7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Romans 3:31
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

To what end does he refer? The resurrection perhaps as many believe or the second coming as others interpret?

As the Catholic Church would have us believe the resurrection was the fulfillment, yet Jesus later talks about the second coming. So would everything really be accomplished?

Once again we see how it is all really up to interpretation.

Even if they were going out and preaching that everyone was going to hell because of this tree, oh well. Plenty of other religions go out and preach door to door about their beliefs. If they aren't forcing themselves into anyone's life (by being loud and disorderly, by violence, etc.) then it shouldn't matter too much.

As far the the Commandments, Christians do take certain things from the Old Testament (stories of their faith such as Moses, Noah, Gensis, etc. - the Commandments, sometimes depending on the denomination - views on homosexuality, contraception, abortion, etc.). It's like most religions: everyone says "This is what we believe" but then they sort of pick and choose which bits actually count. It's kind of annoying in cases where the religion claims to follow specific texts as law but then ignores parts, but other than being irritating it doesn't make them any better or worse than the other thousands of religions that do the same thing.

Wescli Wardest wrote: There are a couple of problems I have with the whole thing.

One… why do so many people find it so important to discredit another person’s spiritual experience? If I have an experience and it strengthens my spiritual well being, what harm is it causing someone else?

Two… if Christians believe that God created all things, then why would it be unfathomable that the butt nectar of a bug could represent God’s tears? God created all things and someone had an experience that they interpreted a particular way. Okay!?!?!?!

Science is a tool we use to understand things based on current knowledge, technology and understanding. It is neither infallible nor perfect. It is a great tool and one of the best tools we have, but like everything created by man… it still ain’t perfect.

Would I worship “God’s Tears” falling from a tree? Nope. I don’t even think I would come to that conclusion of the event. But it was not my experience to interpret.

I think it is good to try and understand what is going on and explain what we can when we can; to look for answers when we don’t currently have them or the ones we have leave you wanting. But, I am not a propionate of belittling another’s views… even if I don’t necessarily agree with them. That’s just me though.

You're right, I had forgotten this and was being overly judgmental.

I would have responded earlier had I not been at ALexandre's which is why you are only seeing this now! lol

Alethea Thompson wrote: I'll tell you why this is a problem- because they are Christian. These Catholics are treating the "Miracle Tree" as a Graven Image, which goes against one of the Ten Commandments. By shedding light upon the actual process by which this is taking place, it directs their attention to what they really should be doing- which is worshiping and follow God's Word.

But hey, if they are going to believe that this tree is something to be stared at in awe- well if God does exist, then they'll have to answer to him some day for falling victim to it's appeal.

So why does it matter? It might not matter to you, and it shouldn't matter to anyone else- but it should matter to the individual which is being sold the idea.

Technically, they aren't treating it as a "graven image", because that term implies something man-crafted to stand in place of God Almighty. Secondly, as Alan Watts points out, idolatry isn't the use of symbols in worship, but rather confusing those symbols for what is actually being worshipped.

Wescli Wardest wrote: One thing that I have always found interesting is that many Christians seem to forget that Jesus said…

Mathew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Mathew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
Mathew 5:18
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Mathew 7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Romans 3:31
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

He also said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (Matt 22:38-40), implying that the entire OT (the Law and the Prophets are two divisions of the Old Testament) rests squarely on these two things.

He's saying that if you love God and you love people, you can't possibly break the rest of the Old Law, because that's basically what it all boils down to.

That's quite dependent upon how you interpret the scripture, Steamboat.

The New Living Translation reads Exodus 20:4 as-
"You must not make for yourself an idol of any kind or an image of anything in the heavens or on the earth or in the sea."

I have personally met a number of people which take this translation to mean "you shouldn't look upon anything- nature made or man-made- as an idol because it detracts you from god."

Me: "Okay, exactly how does that work, if you didn't 'make it yourself'"

Them: "In your mind you fashion it as such, and therefore you have 'made it yourself' rather than God making it that way."

Me: "I'll just take your word for it, more power to you for at least being able to explain why you believe such."