Trans

What good would it do? You can't just hypnotize every trans person to believe they have had a sex change. They would not be able to function in society that way, so what's the point? SRS is the only accepted way to help trans people, and it works. Besides, if a person is hypnotized to believe that they have female sexed parts, how does that prove that the presence of those parts is not important? If they believe the parts are there, they are responding in the same way they would if the parts were there. It doesn't make the case that someone who is aware those parts are not there would be able to overcome dysphoria.

Not to mention the fact that anyone they get into a relationship with is gonna be like:

"Whats that?"
"My girl parts."
"Um, no that s a guy part."
"Nuhuh, its girl parts."
"I'm looking right at it. You said you were a girl. That is not girl parts."
"I have no idea what your talking about."
"Um, okay, pyscho, I'm out."

rugadd wrote: Not to mention the fact that anyone they get into a relationship with is gonna be like:

"Whats that?"
"My girl parts."
"Um, no that s a guy part."
"Nuhuh, its girl parts."
"I'm looking right at it. You said you were a girl. That is not girl parts."
"I have no idea what your talking about."
"Um, okay, pyscho, I'm out."

"controlled study"

What good would it do? You can't just hypnotize every trans person to believe they have had a sex change.

The study's purpose is not to offer hypnosis as a solution, simply to use it as a tool to find something out.

Besides, if a person is hypnotized to believe that they have female sexed parts, how does that prove that the presence of those parts is not important? If they believe the parts are there, they are responding in the same way they would if the parts were there.

If the study does indeed show that people respond the same way whether the parts are actually there or not, it would support my view that the problem is purely psychological (body image issue) and that SRS is in fact a trick of the mind, and, to go back to existentialist stuff, something that satisfies the Other and their Look, not the Authentic self. Something I do not wish to support.

Or, as Jestor put it in the original post, there would be no "need" for SRS, as that need would be created by:
-The view that one has conform to gender/sex "rules". As in one has to be male or female, and feel a certain way based on what they have between their legs. I think we'll agree that this causes psychological turmoil in Trans people.
-The view that one has to be accepted as female or male, which once again I think we'll agree causes psychological turmoil in trans people.

and NOT by the lack of body parts itself.

But if they believe that the body part is there, they will react the same way they would if the body part was actually there. It doesn't prove that you could get over dysphoria by being comfortable with the body you actually have, but that you could only do so by either actually changing your body or being tricked into believing your body had been changed. SRS would still be needed because it won't offer a solution that doesn't involve the person viewing their body with the sexed parts of the sex they identify with.

Ren, even if such a study weren't unethical from a medical practice standpoint, it leans too much on the Hollywood version of hypnosis and not the reality. While certainly, in the trance state actively the sort of behavior, such as believing things have changed can be induced, post hypnotic suggestion is limited to reactive behaviors and suppression of memories. Even if one could be planted with the notion that one had the correct genitals it would be a false notion that the mind may not be able to directly address. For instance, telling a pre srs trans man " you have a penis", and then asking him to describe his penis, he would describe a vagina. He would call his genitals his penis but he would still be aware of their configuration.

I can also voice personal experience with what you're suggesting, I tried submitting myself to such hypnosis prior to transition and it did nothing but create further confusion and anxiety as I believed I had what I knew I should but knew that what I had was wrong and these conflicting notions were even more troubling than the diaspora itself. I had to be sedated and the suggestion removed before I could calm down and that was in the space of 3 hours. The desire to transition has nothing to do with social acceptance. If it did, no one world ever transition. Surgery is needed for some because the incongruity of body and mind is so severe that superficial changes to gender role aren't sufficient to relieve the disphoria

You guys realize this type of hypnosis is used for recreational purposes right? bedroom recreational purposes.

But if they believe that the body part is there, they will react the same way they would if the body part was actually there. It doesn't prove that you could get over dysphoria by being comfortable with the body you actually have, but that you could only do so by either actually changing your body or being tricked into believing your body had been changed. SRS would still be needed because it won't offer a solution that doesn't involve the person viewing their body with the sexed parts of the sex they identify with.

The way to go about it is to make them believe they have what they want. (you can't really hypnotize people any other way anyway) And what they want is to be a man or a woman. So you give them that. Being too specific is bad in hypnosis anyway. people fill in the blanks and make it all fit perfectly.


Either way, what's the worse that can happen? Depending on the outcome, such a study would change my mind. What if you can prove that srs is indeed a cure for a neurological issue without the need for neurosurgery? Do you not think that would help with access to public funds or insurance?
What if to the contrary, it shows that the issue has to do with psychology and image, or a sense of belonging to another "group" than that assigned? Would it not mean research spending into better solutions?

Trans people suffer from sex dysphoria, so the clear solution is to change their sex. I'm not really sure what other options could possibly be out there that wouldn't result in having to use conversion therapy. People have tried to treat it as a psychological issue. It hasn't worked. So now we treat it as a medical issue, and that does work. I still don't see how the study you're suggesting would prove anything except that hypnosis is useful for making people believe things that aren't true. Someone with cancer could be hypnotized to believe they didn't have cancer, and they could then be just as worry free and pain free as they had been before the cancer, but that doesn't prove that their cancer is a psychological issue and doesn't change the fact that it would still be dangerous for them to live as if they didn't have cancer. I just don't see a connection between tricking someone's mind and proving that transgenderism isn't medical.

Trans people suffer from sex dysphoria, so the clear solution is to change their sex

No. the clear solution is to remove whatever causes the dysphoria.

Someone with cancer could be hypnotized to believe they didn't have cancer, and they could then be just as worry free and pain free as they had been before the cancer

First of all, I'm not advocating hypnosis as a solution, merely as a tool to conduct a behavioural study.
Second of all, if hypnosis can be used to remove the pain and worry, what's wrong with that? If the only cause of death as a result of cancer was pain, it would be the ideal solution imo. Similarly, if sex dysphoria (dysphoria being a feeling/emotion) is caused by the mind, the ideal solution lies in repairing the mind, not in tricking it (with srs, drugs, hypnosis, brainwash, etc).

People have tried therapy, and it does not work. SRS does work. SRS does not involve tricking the mind. The dysphoria comes from the sexed parts of the body, and when those are changed it goes away. That would be removing what causes the dysphoria. That's why it works.

The dysphoria comes from the sexed parts of the body, and when those are changed it goes away.

Considering the change involves a lot of nerve-free plastic, allow me to remain sceptical... "feeling unhappy? plastic implants are the solution." Please. Especially since there's research showing that srs is clinically ineffective... Just slightly less useless than no treatment at all. It is my opinion that this slight improvement over nothing at all is the psychological factor. When I suggest a simple study with a control group (never been done before, despite being the standard scientific approach) to at least find out roughly where the problem comes from, you oppose it. Fine. But don't expect to ever see any of my money to finance your health issues.

You make it sound like there is no such thing as a trans-regretter? That no-one changes, rechanges, and rechages again? Why are these guys being silenced and marginalized?

http://www.queerty.com/man-who-had-2-sex-changes-wants-them-banned-as-theyre-only-for-the-completely-deluded-20101109/