Trans

ren wrote: I've got a feeling this "purely psychological" treatment was always of the same kind and aimed at crushing "unnatural feelings" more than anything else. Has it ever been, for example, "your feelings are perfectly normal" ?

That what the gender disphoria diagnosis does, it says "these feelings that you should have been different are normal and let's address any issues you're having because of them", that's why they stopped using gender identity disorder. However, in dealing with those feelings therapy alone isn't enough for the majority of trans patients. Again, the degree to which transition becomes necessary is individual but it's a consitent need for many trans individuals.

How does it go from "your feelings are normal" to "let's chop some things up on your body" ?

Well after years of "your feelings are normal" with absolutely no progress being made, it's time to try something else.

Abhaya Budhil wrote: As far as the code goes, even if we were getting emotional, sometimes that happens. Nobody is perfect all the time. We are all learning and growing constantly.

Indeed! Emotions YET peace

ren wrote: How does it go from "your feelings are normal" to "let's chop some things up on your body" ?

The same way you get from, "it's perfectly normal for you to be in excruciating pain" to "let's operate to relieve the pain"

The same way you get from, "it's perfectly normal for you to be in excruciating pain" to "let's operate to relieve the pain"

Your feelings are normal, let's operate to relieve your feelings?

People with "normal feelings" don't get operated for them.

Perhaps we're miscommunication on the"you're normal". I am specifically saying that the feelings of disphoria are normal. That the sensation that you shouldn't be a man/woman or should be a woman/man is normal. Just because the feelings are normal doesn't mean they don't still cause depression, anxiety, and, in the face of having them getting out, fear. These are things that can't be left alone as they overwhelm people and, combined with the anti trans feelings over most of the western world, drive people to substance abuse, suicide, and other self destructive behaviors. Not allowing transition is a losing battle with these pressures and is why preventing us from access to treatment is so devastating.

It is normal to be uncomfortable with your body. A lot of people are uncomfortable with their bodies. Once you have tried treating body dysphoria as just one more thing someone could be uncomfortable with and the dysphoria doesn't respond to that type of treatment, it is time to try something else.

Dysphoria (from Greek: δύσφορος (dysphoros), from δυσ-, difficult, and φέρειν, to bear) is a state of feeling unwell or unhappy; a feeling of emotional and mental discomfort as a symptom of discontentment, restlessness, dissatisfaction, malaise, depression, anxiety or indifference.

Dysphoria is a (or many) feeling(s). I think a feeling of malaise with one's own gender is normal.

I used the "pink" example earlier on. If all your life you are told that girls do this and that and don't do this, and don't like that, and all your life you've disagreed, it is normal to feel you'd be better off not being a girl. It seems reasonable to me that this girl blames what she's got between her legs for preventing her from doing what she likes, and being what she likes. It seems reasonable to me that this girl grows up hating being a girl.

Some people would argue that there is something wrong with that girl; "normal girls want to do girlie things" kind of deal. But I don't. What I do argue though is that what this girl has between her legs didn't cause anything. After all 3.5 billion other people have the exact same thing, and many more billions deceased people had the exact same thing. What I do argue is that this girl's experience with the world/society is what caused this ill feeling. And if on top of that, (although research is inconclusive, you never know) this girl has a predisposition (genetic or other physiological factors) to those feelings, then she's bound to feel even more out of place (sex-wise).

My argument is that sex dysphoria is a symptom of the "illness", and that hiding the symptom does not cure the illness.

Your argument assumes that trans people conform to the gender stereotypes of the gender they transition to instead of the gender they were raised as. This isn't true. Some trans people certainly do conform to those stereotypes, but many do not. You can have butch transwomen and femme transmen. It has nothing to do with what they like or what gendered behaviors they have.

People with sex dysphoria are unhappy, to varying degrees. People who undergo SRS are usually much happier as a result. It seems to me that SRS is working.

Since mental health professionals, medical professionals, and trans people agree on this, and since my own experience is that I have been happier since beginning my transition, I'm not about to stop transitioning while people who have no experience with sex dysphoria or with trans patients decide whether or not transition is necessary. It is my experience and the experience of many people like me that transition is necessary and effective.