Muammar Gaddafi

WOW! What a tread. I'm stuned at some of the statments made. This and the other thread seem more like rants and trooling for posts than lagitment debated. I think this type of dialogue makes this place look bad. There are so many people reading this. What may they be thinking. What kind of impression do discussions like this make of Jedism.

If others feel this way please post your thoughts. I'm just one voice and if it just me I'll take that hit but if others feel like I do speak/write up. It's your place too.

MCSH wrote:

ren wrote: Does the leader of every invading country get executed because of the invasion? Or is it just saddam, because he failed to remove the democratic government of Iran despite all the help he was getting?

Do you know about chemical weapons he used during it's war with Iran?

Do you know who supplied those chemical weapons?
germany, france, UK, US, egypt, india, china, soviet union, others... OH DEAR. It looks like the 5 permanent members of the UN security council were among them. (yet again-- they are the largest weapons traders in the world)

When did he attack? After Khomeini alienated all of former non-democratic Iran's friends.

I don't think attacking other countries, results in being executed... I think it was just an excuse to remove him.

So... if I give you the gun to kill someone, does that decrease your guilt? I think no...

No. But everyone should be judged according to the same rules. Countries are constantly attacking other countries, and their leaders don't get killed for declaring wars. The country I currently live in has been at war with afghanistan for over 10 years, has had 3 different prime ministers during that time, and the prime minister who declared war to begin with is a "peace envoy" (to the middle east!).

you might admire gadaffi but the people of libya did not.

Yes, they did. Until a Libyan told me, I had no clue what Libya really was like. I believed in the garbage in the news like everyone else. At first I thought that libyan was talking non-sense, then I checked it out for myself. Besides, I posted a video that shows how much people supported him.

The Freedom of the Press Index rated Libya the most-censored state in the Middle East and North Africa.

rofl. Like there is such a thing as free press. Ah well, at least CNN bothered checking out that gadaffi mass grave (you know? the one that only had animal remains in it). I'd be thankful if the government here prevented that so-called free press. It's garbage controlled by the master puppeteers (Murdoch's friends), designed to control the crowds.

Stand up for liberty Ren

I do. Do you?

Freedom fighters operate against military target's which are otherwise oppressing them.

Can you prove to me that people are less oppressed now that they have been "freedom fighted"?

Terrorists deliberately operate against soft non-military targets to induce terror.

Clearly people have no fear when foreign powers meddle in their country's affairs. And in "freedom" wars, it's military targets that suffer the most, the fact that 10 times more civilians die than military personnel is unrelated to the war. It's the damn kids, they steal the grenades and play football with them, right?

If you believe what you say, why don't you ask iraqis if they feel more terrorized now, or before the war? Only Brits and americans think it is. Iraqis? Their country has been opened up to al-qaeda, which now carries regular terrorist attacks there. The one thing saddam did and did very well was keep the conflict between sects down. Now? it's an all-out war, and the current government seems to mostly come from one same side.

And war is worse than terrorism. We've all been brainwashed into thinking it's the opposite.

Rickie The Grey wrote: WOW! What a tread. I'm stuned at some of the statments made. This and the other thread seem more like rants and trooling for posts than lagitment debated. I think this type of dialogue makes this place look bad. There are so many people reading this. What may they be thinking. What kind of impression do discussions like this make of Jedism.

If others feel this way please post your thoughts. I'm just one voice and if it just me I'll take that hit but if others feel like I do speak/write up. It's your place too.

rickie, why do people troll?

ren wrote: No. But everyone should be judged according to the same rules.

As we have seen time and time again, the “rules” don’t always work for every situation! Like we have seen recently in other topics. Rules should be treated as guidelines and not absolute because they can’t cover everything accurately or fairly. And, we have to recognize that others may have to alter or put to the side, sometimes, their own rules to reach the end in some cases.

Our own experiences should show us that and help us to understand that just because we read something somewhere does not give us the full story or reason in to why something is or was.

Just like our understanding that some countries and some institutions are more evil than others…

Well, if you don't like what is being said, don't read.

I have yet to see either of you say anything other than mindlessly repeat what you've been force-fed by the media.

What kind of impression do discussions like this make of Jedism.

That novices still have much to learn? If you want to debate, do so. stop throwing accusations of trolling around and actually use your time to build an argument.

As we have seen time and time again, the “rules” don’t always work for every situation! Like we have seen recently in other topics. Rules should be treated as guidelines and not absolute because they can’t cover everything accurately or fairly. And, we have to recognize that others may have to alter or put to the side, sometimes, their own rules to reach the end in some cases.

rules work equally well in the same situations though. if you are found guilty of attacking a country, your punishment should be the same as someone else doing the same thing. In the other thread, if someone else found themselves in that situation, we would allow it too.

As to the travesty of justice saddam was victim of is just not acceptable. It's no different from old-fashioned entertainment, where people would get hanged on the public place to appease the masses.

Just like our understanding that some countries and some institutions are more evil than others…

What understanding? I don't understand it, and I don't agree with what is being done on my behalf, as those things are contrary to my beliefs.

I don't agree with what is being done on my behalf

I know you don’t agree with it, I’m just sayin that we should recognize that we don’t always have all the information and therefore we really can’t form an “informed” and complete picture to base any judgment on.

Sometimes we just have to believe that those “looking out for our best interest” are looking out for our best interest.

Wescli Wardest wrote:

I don't agree with what is being done on my behalf

I know you don’t agree with it, I’m just sayin that we should recognize that we don’t always have all the information and therefore we really can’t form an “informed” and complete picture to base any judgment on.

Sometimes we just have to believe that those “looking out for our best interest” are looking out for our best interest.

But maybe they're not. And considering the methods they employ, I'd rather not take the risk. You're american, the wars your country has been involved in were likely caused by big corp lobby. A side-effect of this is that you now have more enemies than ever before. And that's You wescli, the individual, who has enemies, not the evil unelected leader of your country, since you're a democracy. Can't play the blame game.

If those big corp lobbyists' interests were the same as yours, would you still risk it? What if it turns out you don't share those interests?

I find that I seldom share the same interests as those elected to office or those placed in charge of security groups. I also don’t always agree on the best course of action as the one taken.

I also realize that what is done, is done. I, and no one else, can go back and change it. What I can do is actively work to effect positive change here, and now.

I don’t take a lot of “risks” since I have been a parent. My child and her well being come first. That means I have a plan and a backup plan and several alternates which have options. But I still excise my liberties and vote. And the only way to do so in a manner which the individual can feel confident about their choice is to be informed. Sure, we never have all the info… but we can get a lot. I also do what I can to support the lobby’s which share any opinion I may have or will work to push through an agenda I feel is relevant.

I also do what I can to support the lobby’s which share any opinion I may have or will work to push through an agenda I feel is relevant.

Aaaww man I hate lobby. In representative democracy you elect people to make decisions on your behalf. Why would you then pay for them to be influenced or allow them to be influenced by other lobbyists? Would you find it acceptable if people paid your fellow citizens to vote one way or the other?