Jedi Pyramid

I’m all for encouraging ourselves and each other to be better people, but I’m not real wild about trying to force it through strict rules. A lot of the things you’ve written, Alethea, are really awesome ideas to live by, but some aren’t always doable. And I agree that working together is a great thing, but I also understand how unification could wash away our differences.

You used Christians as an example. Yes, they follow some of the same basic (and I mean basic) principles, but many of them go about getting there in different ways. Why can’t TOTJO and the other Jedi sites continue following their courses without a unifying set of rules? I can’t say for sure, but I bet we all pretty much want to be good people who do good things in our lives. So we already have a unifying idea.

While the rules you’ve written out are pretty good, they’re also very daunting. I feel like it could turn a lot of people away. Many people don’t start on a religion/philosophy by jumping in gung ho. Many dip their toes, and your rules don’t seem to give much room for toe dipping. I know if I was just starting out and TOTJO used a long list of tough rules I would have run away screaming. I don’t know any kung fu, I don’t have a job “saving” people, and I don’t agree with following uncouth laws set by government (Even Gandhi and Dr. King were lawbreakers). Would all that mean I’m kicked out of the Jedi club?

And why can’t anybody call themselves a Jedi? We didn’t coin the term, and we don’t have the last say on what it means. Why can’t a new person to the religion/philosophy be called a Jedi? New people to Christianity are still called Christians.

But I do admire you for trying to push us forward. And I have gotten some good ideas on how I could grow…I just like to do it in my own way and time.

For clarification, because you are not the first to misunderstand the Kitsu standards. Many of us stood firmly against Kitsu's extracurricular standards for all Jedi. My point in showing what those talks produced is to demonstrate why they were complete flops of ideas. I was relating it directly to the idea of No Child aleft Behind, which enforces standardized training across school systems.

The Jedi Circle was meant to give the community an outline for how to best achieve becoming a Jedi. To read up on its various incarnations you can find that document at: http://jediacademyonline.com/jcircle.html as others have pointed out various times, it doesn't hit the mark for different reasons. One guy gave me that for all of it's talk against the path being religious the document sounds too much like a religious document. Some dislike it because compassion is listed as a misconception, some against it because religion is mentioned as a misconception. The original had martial arts listed as a requirement. Now it lists physical fitness, but it doesn't cover that Jedi are meant to be guardians of peace, it doesn't cover the code sufficiently, the list goes on.

Now this document can also be used to point someone to something which is short, to the point and describes exactly what it means to be a Jedi regardless of your order's affiliation. It is an aide for people that find themselves constantly having to explain themselves to others.

"Well each order has a different focus, but in the general sense we all agree that a Jedi follows these basic concepts. Some are more strict than others, but this is our very core."

ça, c'est fait ! :laugh:

Cheers, Br. John ! I'd forgotten about that one !

That would be up to the order to bring you into the fold before you are introduced to the concepts of what it truly means to be a Jedi. I think a lot of you are not reading the Defense Art in its entirety because I keep seeing Martial Arts getting brought up. Akkarin, by the outline given, carries his defense art in counseling others, Br. John's ability to defend others comes from his legal background, others might be intel gathers, writers and so forth. These can be natural talents expanded upon (and really it doesn't have to be too terribly expanded on, but used in some capacity. Just the last night I found myself counseling my manager, small scale, bit he needed some ideas on how he could reconcile problems he sees when he goes to church, so we talked. The idea is to find a creative method of living the path within your means. It does not have to be grand, just so long as you are working toile the lives of others better, and not just your own. An example of someone not fulfilling the Jedi Path would be if all you were doing is living day to day, going to work, doing your job and nothing more, come home, play video games, and just carry on like this for the rest of your life. Another example would be a monk that does nothing but clean a monastery. He doesn't get involved in the lives of those around him, he just focuses on himself, his prayers/meditations and the deity he has chosen to worship. While both are doing something for others, it is devoid of real action to actually do a service for those around them. The guy that goes to work and plays games may find instead that he needs to get out and start up a club for local teens to get involved in so they are off the street, or look to help mentor someone at work. The monk may begin to look for some means of getting his monastery involved with the community (think Sister Act 2) or seek out a method of making the ancient teachings understandable to a modern audience, using in speaking out against unjustified wars or actions against humanity.

Then we have that Jedi abide by the laws. If you read that section carefully, you will notice that there are provisions for going against the law. Ghandi and Martin Luther King, Jr both fit well within the rights under the provision of revolution. Furthermore, it is important to note that until you start digging into the laws of different areas you will find that you probably do not know them nearly as well as you think. For example, honor killings (contrary to popular belief) are not actually legal in the majority of middle eastern countries, they are mostly just overlooked.

Bring us into the fold ?

But, what make you think that some of us, or none of us, are doing that ?

Or, one doesn't have to be Jedi to be altruist ... it just happens that we are. Moreover, doing altruistic acts and then shouting from all the rooftops about it is not really virtuous.

Please, Alethea, we're not quite so much the 'hillbilly' faction of the Jedi as you are making us out to be.

The Jedi Circle was meant to give the community an outline for how to best achieve becoming a Jedi. To read up on its various incarnations you can find that document at: jediacademyonline.com/jcircle.html as others have pointed out various times, it doesn't hit the mark for different reasons. One guy gave me that for all of it's talk against the path being religious the document sounds too much like a religious document. Some dislike it because compassion is listed as a misconception, some against it because religion is mentioned as a misconception.

Considering this is Opie and he can't stand Jediism, totjo especially, it does not surprise me.


Speaking of Jediism, it is what we practice. as V-Tog said, it is our religion. "Jedi realism"/"force realism"/"light adept"/etc are not a religion, but an attempt at emulating all or some of the things fictional Jedi do. the difference being that we concern ourselves with matters of faith and philosophy a lot more than we do with these:

Defense Art- In the fiction, Jedi were “guardians of peace” (“Jedi Code”, n.d.). As real life Jedi, we acknowledge that this means defending people. A “Defense Art” is not necessarily physical in nature, it can be through speech, writing, diplomacy or a number of other options which lead to an active method of curing the world of oppression. An example might be legislation which a government passes to build a better world, Martin Luther King speaking out against the evils of racism, or even the writings of prominent media personalities to bring about awareness of atrocities ongoing around the world. Combative defense arts, however, are also encouraged.

Physical Art- A physical art may be overlooked given the right circumstance (e.g. having a serious disability which prevents you from any movement). However, if a Jedi has some or all mobility, they should seek a physical art (Martial Arts, Yoga, Ballet, Weight Lifting, Running, etc) which keeps them them in shape and focuses on maintaining discipline of their bodies. Part of the physical art, which can be observed by all Jedi regardless of their mobility, is health. A Jedi should eat right, and maintain their health to the best of their ability (it is understandable if you have legitimate medical issues preventing “perfect health”).

Duty to the People- A Jedi's mission is to support their community through service. This service can be taken in many different (legal) directions, such as becoming a lawyer, an activist, a politician, police officer, volunteer for community efforts or an array of projects aimed at giving back to the community. A Jedi is also charged with acting when they see an injustice (which might be as simple as making a phone call to the police, or taking the time to listen to someone in their time of need- stranger or not). A Jedi does what is within their means, but the main point is that they must always act in an objective manner.

Respect the Law-A Jedi knows enough of the law to operate within it. Jedi are charged to live by the laws of the land they are in, even if it means tolerating those laws which they do not support. This does not preclude them from seeking to change the law (which may or may not include becoming part of or even starting a revolution-when no other options are available) to better the community, in fact- if a Jedi feels compelled to do so it is a respectable mission for a Jedi to fulfill.

Like chat, with too much input, and too many words...

I withdraw from this conversation...

Ren, those new orders tended to fall apart and rejoin the orders they split from or new orders from there. You have been almost to every order, but for a good chunk of time stayed at JS. That was torn apart for a number of reasons, but at the top of everyone's list was the unification process it was Jedi7 letting Aryas (is that the right name, the Satanist) run amuck and abuse abound. She went to Noetic Jedi and stayed there until it died...it's got some activity, but its dead. Coelescere bounced apart but the problem there was time and Aweh making a huge to do and getting people up in arms about the religious factor. Eventually it got to A different group that realized they didn't fit the Jedi archetype and Kitsu gave them the idea to pursue their more humble version of Force exploration under the banner of Baran Do. The site gets traffic, but not a lot of talk anymore, and as such I'm working to preserve their work by pulling what they allow me to into the FA.

Likewise, RJE sprang off of RJK just 8 months ago because Mi-Zhe Fu came back and wanted to through out all of the material that others had worked hard on and return to the sorts of stuff he had during his "glory days". The order worked hard to get out from under him, and when he didn't want to make compromises and in general stopped acting as a Jedi should by lying and declaring enemies of the state based on who he didn't really like (that's how they saw it, I won't give my personal opinion on the matter), they jumped ship. RJK split between RJE, RJK and Jedi Academy Online (Opie's order). Poor retreated to his own corner because he didn't see forward movement at FA, and was betrayed at RJE and RJK by two people he thought he could trust. RJE experiences little public activity, and Cody recently left the council because he felt no one actually wanted to work towards being better Jedi because no one invested the time he thought they should into their training.

Ashla Knights sprang off of FA because Derek came at a time when the training was low and pretty slow movement forward. When he could not get what he sought after he went elsewhere. The site enjoyed a few years but when it shut down for revisions and new material to become something other than Jedi (they're Jedi, they just won't tell you in public) it went down for too long and now has dwindling results. This is another group I may seek to pull material from for the FA before it is lost.

It was not the unification process which split the majority if these orders apart as it was the inability of the person running the order inability to be flexible.

Consider this, Ren, in all of the time that the community has been alive and kicking, did you ever believe an order would stay alive for the length of 15 years? With RJK the running lead (12 years) behind FA looking to become a dead forum only as recent as 8 months ago because of the problems which came about from MZF returning, what do you think is the reason for success at FA, ToTJO, IJRS and ToTJF? (JAO has yet to stand for 5 years, so it's not included here). For FA, it's that we have competition and opportunity to rise within the structure or find a niche we fall into. ToTJO because Br. John is allowing his clergy to take charge, instead of ruling with an iron fist. Jax at IJRS is open to new developments in programs and ToTJF....you know I don't know enough about them to make that call, but I bet it has something to do with the way leadership is run. So no, it's not the unification process that tears us apart, it's not the differences either (save in the case of the Baran Do, which is fine, they wanted to explore "the Force" in a less active means. Just sayin'.

Wow, there was a lot of name dropping and jedi history to this, so I just want to say that I didn't read it all.

Ally, we've talked about this. Most of the Jedi community will not accept things for the simple fact they don't want to. We can run rational arguments, jedi history and any other reason we want, but ultimately unless they write it, it will be rejected out of hand.

And you know what, I am OK with that.

I have also realized I DON'T want the entire community joining us. If we have to try to convince people that Jedi train and better their connection to the force to help others, then they aren't the kind of people we want anyway. V-tog was absolutely right that most people are not willing to jump right into something new. They like to get their feet wet first.

As long as we do our thing, and they do their thing, new people will open doors for themselves here. Then when they eventually come to the conclusion that they should step it up and step away from the computer and take their skills to the streets, we will be there.

I know this sounds like a douche statement, but allowing in a bunch of "sunday jedi" would cheapen what we are trying to achieve. A religious service order, not a religion