Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

Senan wrote: There will be more to come, but this is the start. I want to be clear that the Council is working, but we are moving slowly and deliberately in order to give the proper consideration to anything we decide on. We want to get this right, and we want it done with as much input from the membership as we can get. It will require patience, but know that we in "management" want to see positive action happen as much as everyone else.

The problem with this paragraph is that we've heard it before and nothing has ever happened, Master Senan. I really hope that this time it will be different and that it will be the first step to fixing the problems that this place has had before and currently. Also, it seems like sometimes when members try to throw in their input, they get cast aside for someone else's (usually someone with more time here/higher title). If we are going to do this, we need to be fair and transparent. I understand it takes time, all I ask is that maybe you guy throw us a bone in the future saying "This is what we are working on, and this is how we are planning to fix it/implement it".

just my two cents, respectfully

Regardless, let's focus on building up those that would replace us and will do a better job than we have instead of worrying about who holds a title they aren't doing justice to.

When I read this, I see a single point to focus on for a larger multi-faceted based solution. I don't see him wanting to sweep administrative problems under the rug, but instead identifying one facet of the problem to focus on that is directly in his control. Should statements are easy to say. We should change for the better. We should do this or we should do that. For me, the root of the problems are solved based on the positive actions that are taken.

Senan isn't saying ignore the rest of the problems and just make the students better for the chance of hope. By promoting the individual, we are simply adding to the total aggregated worth of the Temple. In my line of work, building people up and empowering them rarely ever ends up hurting them in the long run (unless they are diagnosed with a specific personality disorder). Pointing the finger out helps to identify the problems that we see, but its great to point the finger inward and say, "Given this immediate situation, what steps can I do to make the issue better?"

The problem I have with that statement is the last clause. Forgive me for my use of the fiction, but as Stephen pointed out in another thread earlier, Odan-Urr had some serious words for misbehaving Jedi:

Odan-Urr wrote: When a Jedi behaves badly in public, an observer might think, 'If this Jedi is a representative of the whole Order, then plainly no Jedi is worth respect.' On meeting a second Jedi, who behaves better than the first, that same person might think, 'Does this say that half the Jedi are good, and half bad?' On meeting a third Jedi, who behaves as well as the second, the person thinks, 'Was the first Jedi an exception, then?' In this way, only by the good behavior of several Jedi can the public be certain that the poor behavior of one Jedi was unusual. Thus, it takes many Jedi to undo the mistakes of one.

This bit of truth cannot be continuously overlooked if we want this Temple to thrive instead of merely survive. If people knew how many people bail on this Temple, not because it wasn't the right place for them, but because people were jerks to them (and I'm guilty of this as well), it would blow your minds. We have got to start acknowledging that the way we treat people is a reflection on the entire Jedi/Jediist philosophy/religion/subculture. To stick our heads in the sand and ignore this truth is folly.

With everything I've been observing, my general stance has been:

"It's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission."

If there are concerns with people in power not doing something, outside of the obvious legal things we can/can not do, I personally feel that if you make someone redundant, you can generally create improvements in that area.

Let us take, for instance, the position of Public Relations. That position is currently fairly well empty as far as we can tell and have been told. There is some behind the scenes stuff, my understanding is they want to ensure they get a solid "face" for the Temple, that is holding this selection up. However, we want to update a lot of things that can bring people in and keep them in.

We could wait until someone is chosen, or begin working on those projects now. The extra fun part of that is if we begin working on those projects now, leadership may be selected *coughSteamBoat4PRcough* from those who worked diligently on those projects. In this, we acquire more talent where it has a track record and we have projects done already.

So, my general philosophy is to begin being the change we want to see.

When it comes to the disciplinary stuff and how things are run at an even higher level where the most accusations of rug sweeping are, eventually enough people will be brought up through diligent work to effect those changes or see that things aren't hidden away so easily. Unfortunately, change doesn't happen overnight because you have to change mentalities and policies. There is a reason why it got to a way in the first place, and we must work to show people what is, and is not acceptable and that those who accept what is wrong that they are a minority.

I have a whoooole spiel on organizational atmospherics if anyone wants to hear it, how it can be good and how it can be bad.

thomaswfaulkner wrote:

Regardless, let's focus on building up those that would replace us and will do a better job than we have instead of worrying about who holds a title they aren't doing justice to.

When I read this, I see a single point to focus on for a larger multi-faceted based solution. I don't see him wanting to sweep administrative problems under the rug, but instead identifying one facet of the problem to focus on that is directly in his control. Should statements are easy to say. We should change for the better. We should do this or we should do that. For me, the root of the problems are solved based on the positive actions that are taken.

Senan isn't saying ignore the rest of the problems and just make the students better for the chance of hope. By promoting the individual, we are simply adding to the total aggregated worth of the Temple. In my line of work, building people up and empowering them rarely ever ends up hurting them in the long run (unless they are diagnosed with a specific personality disorder). Pointing the finger out helps to identify the problems that we see, but its great to point the finger inward and say, "Given this immediate situation, what steps can I do to make the issue better?"

That's how you choose to see it, and I've no problem with that. However what has been said has been the typical response as it focuses less on those who have received a free pass, and this includes those in charge. The whole argument pertaining to "there's nothing that can be done about it" doesn't hold water, I myself proved this argument wrong when I held a peaceful protest. It takes courage to do what must be done to inact real change, and a real paradigm change has to include those at the top (all of them) or its all a facade...

Real change must start with us, here and now, not with future generations....

Zenchi wrote: That's how you choose to see it, and I've no problem with that. However what has been said has been the typical response as it focuses less on those who have received a free pass, and this includes those in charge. The whole argument pertaining to "there's nothing that can be done about it" doesn't hold water, I myself proved this argument wrong when I held a peaceful protest. It takes courage to do what must be done to inact real change, and a real paradigm change has to include those at the top (all of them) or its all a facade...

Real change must start with us, here and now, not with future generations....

Agreed. Being a Jedi is about growth and not being afraid to start over. Even if it involves starting from day one, its best to start today.

Oh, yeah! I agree with you fully. I just think that it was a baby step that can inch us forward. That ol' snowball that is just rolling down the hill. I try not to mingle to much in the how to change conversations because I want to hit that frontline of people coming in and help them learn that his place can be a home for them. But you're right as well. At some point individual effort can get exhausting for the person giving compassion and the other person who can't get past the blockade to receive it.

I know there is something that can be done about it. I don't have the ground/platform to make the changes administratively, but I can work on the front lines and reach out to people now. I just hope that someone, somewhere will see it down the line and start that chain reaction. If they aren't a Knight or Councilman, then spread that "welcoming"ness around with me. If they are, then I hope it causes a discussion amongst people where change can be made.

Thank you all for sharing your responses to my comments. I especially want to offer my gratitude to you, Zenchi, for understanding that this should be a constructive conversation even when our opinions might be different. Your counterpoints (and those of your Apprentice) are very valuable to me.

I feel like we're entering territory we have all discussed ad nauseum before, but I do want to share a few things from my point of view.

First, the entire point of my last post was an effort to be transparent. I specifically explained what we are doing right now to address a certain issue. That is that we are creating a document called the Pax Templi to address recurring behavior problems here. MadHatter is heading that project and others have been a big help as well. You can ask him for more details if you'd like. The irony of this being seen as "sweeping administration issues under the rug" is that the idea came from a Novice who has only been here for a month. It didn't come from Council, and it isn't being hidden. It just isn't done yet.

Next, I'm sure everyone has noticed that the Council went from six to thirteen in the span of a week. The number of "administrators" working to make this Temple better has doubled. We have people including members outside of Council working on an organizational chart outlining who's who and who will be doing what, along with who they report to. We have Rosalyn, Carlos and Atticus working on filling the offices in the Clergy so that they can better assist the members who seek guidance and expanding Clergy outreach. MadHatter has taken Membership Affairs by the reins and is giving it more attention than we have seen since Jestor stepped away. JLSpinner and I, along with assistance from Kit, are revisiting the roles of Security Officer and Moderator to better define our policies and procedures. We're also finishing the next issue of the TOTJO Times that will include a lot of these updates. Kit is also working to define the office of Public Affairs and get someone installed quickly to handle interview requests and such, and I know Steamboat has been part of that. Ren and Tellahane are always working to maintain the site, but they are also having productive discussions about how to improve it. Alexandre continues to over see the education and curriculum and Adhara is still overseeing the Knights Corps. There is a survey being drawn up that will be offered to the entire membership that will ask for feedback specific to each department. On top of all of this, we are currently compiling the annual report that includes all promotions, financials, policy changes, etc that occurred in 2017.

And then there's just the day to day operation and moderation of the site, reviewing journals, reviewing and interviewing Knight candidates, tracking points toward the Divinity Degrees, tracking Seminarians' progress and interviewing potential Clergy, the IP Team, and so on. We're also expected to participate in the forums and continue our own personal study to keep pace with the ever evolving IP and always be improving as Jedi. And then there's our Apprentices who we also owe our full attention to.

I'm not here to call anyone out, but I believe it is fair to point out that you, Zenchi, had an opportunity to be on the inside. You had access to the inner workings of this place and you could've been the window for the rest of the membership to see into the administration of this place. You could've helped us make the changes we are trying to faithfully execute right now. You've demonstrated time and again your ability to rally the troops toward a cause and get people motivated. You too, Arisaig. You are both strong voices in this Temple. With a spirit of cooperation and a lot of patience, we can achieve our common goals. We need your help.

It is also worth noting that through all of this, Br. John and Neaj Pa Bol have been supportive, open to change, and communicating with all of us on a daily basis. To give you an idea, I was added to a text group containing the current Councillors two days ago and I've seen almost a hundred messages back and forth. This is in addition to regular communication in the Council Forum and on Skype. All of this effort is happening despite the difficulties of being on multiple continents, in different time zones, and juggling our own personal and professional lives. It is not meant to be hidden. It is simply too much to share with everyone all of the time. It would be the equivalent of asking an air traffic control tower to share and explain every communication they have with every aircraft.

This is beginning to sound like a pity party, and that wasn't my intention. I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for us, or for me in particular. We accepted these roles and duties willingly, and the beatings I have taken before were mostly earned because of my own inexperience. We hold these positions because we want to be of service to our fellow Jedi in this Temple. It is a labor of love for many of us, and we gladly offer our time and effort. I can understand why some may feel like they are left out of the loop or ignored, but it isn't done intentionally. In my opinion, this is as much about the membership as it is the administration. As Nakis and Thomas are pointing out, if you want to see the change, do what you can to make it happen. Get in the trenches with us instead of standing on the sideline and throwing accusations of incompetence or assuming that we are hiding things. This isn't pointed at anyone specifically here in this thread because I've seen all of you step up and volunteer in many capacities at one time or another. This is what we need more of. This is why I am optimistic about the current culture I see here, not focused on the "problems".

I am a Knight, but my armor is hardly shiny. It has it's share of rust and dents. I'm open to opposition from anyone here, so long as the goal is to have productive conversation and seek solutions. That, I believe, is what we are doing here, and I'm happy to continue.

Thank you Senan I'd only like to make one correction though. The Survey is open to take right now until 12 Jan. You can also view the results we've had so far

Here's the link to the thread!

We humbly appreciate that, Senan. I know that I'm just an apprentice but if you guys need any help with anything whether it is helping with the IP team, greeting new guests, etc, I'm down for it. I know I contacted Hatter about it a while ago but it never got anywhere (don't worry, Hatter, I'm sure you have a lot on your plate!!!).

I'm open to help as best as I can. Please let me know.