Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

*sigh* Assuming makes an... well, we all know how this goes.

We all know of what I speak. It has been a long dead heart, but new life is being breathed into it. This is what happens when thrones become too comfy, people don't want to leave their seats. Now that we have new blood in the mix, I'm sure that will change.

To be fair, I've been told "we're working on it" for nearly 6 years, and we still have the same problems. You can't really blame people for getting frustrated at hearing it.

I know we've all heard this same song before. It's the whole reason we're at this point in the conversation. "Things will change" Leadership says. And they never seem to on a permanent basis.

I can't tell you not to keep this line going like the chorus of "this is the song that never ends" because of the experience we've had here for years. And the one thing that can smooth your feathers at this point in time is the one thing we've lost. Trust.

Trust is going to take time and effort from both sides to rebuild. Trust is a community effort. We as leaders need to prove ourselves worthy of your trust, but we also rely on you to communicate with us and keep us accountable.

All I can say at this moment is I hear you. I've felt it too. I almost left the temple several times over the feeling that nothing will change. I'm going to fight to make this the temple we're dreaming of but I need your help. Be patient with me, with all of us. But also keep me accountable. If you find I'm doing something in an official capacity as a Councillor, shoot even as Knight or Jedi, official or not, that you feel goes against the spirit of things here, open up a dialog, public or private. I promise I will listen. I may not always agree and there may be things that keep me from making you happy, but I will at least explain myself and do my best to allay your fears.

Many of you have known me for a while now. You've seen me struggle, you've seen me make mistakes. If you haven't I promise they're around I have had the chance to earn the personal trust and respect from some of you. Give me the chance I need to earn that trust as a leader. I have a lot of experience in the military and done a lot of learning on leadership, but my practical experience isn't nearly as vast as my theory. I know I'll make mistakes but I can't learn from them without your help.

You are important to me. This Temple is important to me. So in turn, being the best leader I can be for you is important to me.

Please, help me to grow as we all work to make this Temple grow.

Atticus wrote:

Stephen wrote: A suggestion..
There is a contact clergy button for religious matters.
Why don't we put a contact a mediator for disputes or perceived insults.
That way instead of people responding emotionally, they can get someone to look at it without bias.
It will stop things from escalating and calm can replace anger.
This seems better than laying down the law.

TBH, I've started thinking that when you contact the Clergy, you maybe should get a mediator when the situation warrants.

The form can be updated and changed to "Contact us" and a representative from clergy, mods, council, can respond accordingly. Would that be useful?

Also, I like the idea of the "mediator". I am talking about it with Synod now

Fellow Jedi,
In the very short time I've been part of the TotJO, I have seen an us and them mentality.
I don't understand it, we are all Jedi after all.
It could be that I haven't been here long enough to be drawn in to it.
Surely, that brings a new perspective or one that's been forgotten.
The problem as I see it..
The Council try to implement change but it takes time
The Jedi ranks want to see it happen or know something is really being done.
The Councils reassurances are doubted due to past experience.
Why not make a Knight ( someone not on the council ) a representative of the Jedi not in office.
Let the representative see what is going on behind the curtain. So that he/she can inform everyone that promises are being honoured.
But, the representative position would have to be chosen by the members and the council could not have any say on the person selected.
The council would have to work with them.
I think it would help regain the trust.
Then again I am new here and still have much to learn...

Stephen wrote: Fellow Jedi,
In the very short time I've been part of the TotJO, I have seen an us and them mentality.
I don't understand it, we are all Jedi after all.
It could be that I haven't been here long enough to be drawn in to it.
Surely, that brings a new perspective or one that's been forgotten.
The problem as I see it..
The Council try to implement change but it takes time
The Jedi ranks want to see it happen or know something is really being done.
The Councils reassurances are doubted due to past experience.
Why not make a Knight ( someone not on the council ) a representative of the Jedi not in office.
Let the representative see what is going on behind the curtain. So that he/she can inform everyone that promises are being honoured.
But, the representative position would have to be chosen by the members and the council could not have any say on the person selected.
The council would have to work with them.
I think it would help regain the trust.
Then again I am new here and still have much to learn...

We tried that actually, a couple of us stepped down for reasons already stated. I was notified a couple of weeks ago I was up for Advisor again, I replied I was OK with it, nothing happened, I have to be OK with that too...

The Temple is alot like a disfunfunctional family, give it time, it'll all make sense soon enough...

Truth be known, that may be my biggest challenge, I am realizing I myself can no longer treat the TOTJO like a disfunfunctional family, it's grown far too big for that now...

Jedi Zenchi,
As an advisor you were still with the council to a degree.
I was thinking more of a council monitor. No input with council matters, but someone to ensure that the Council Honourable.
What if you had been in that position instead.
You would be someone both sides, so to speak, would trust.

Stephen wrote: Jedi Zenchi,
As an advisor you were still with the council to a degree.
I was thinking more of a council monitor. No input with council matters, but someone to ensure that the Council Honourable.
What if you had been in that position instead.
You would be someone both sides, so to speak, would trust.

Again, short of being council secretary I'd be down with it, however it's not up to me, and contrary to what the site used to say, I'm not the most popular individual here...

Jedi Zenchi
It's about being trustworthy.
I think all would agree, you want the best for the Temple.
You would be for the members.
If the Council and other offices truly want transparency...
Building trust and stopping the endless " Nothing is done and never changes "
We talk of accountability.

Stephen wrote: Jedi Zenchi
It's about being trustworthy.
I think all would agree, you want the best for the Temple.
You would be for the members.
If the Council and other offices truly want transparency...
Building trust and stopping the endless " Nothing is done and never changes "
We talk of accountability.

Historically speaking, things have not been quite that simple. Its easy to put it in words, harder in practise.

Hoping these new changes that we're being told are being discussed may make what you're stating as simple as it sounds. One day...

I would like to hear a member of the Councils thoughts on this.
I understand it would be a personal view not the Councils view.

Stephen,
I was previously an Adviser. Now I am a Councillor. I didn’t ask to be either. Hopefully I can clarify a few things.

First, the Advisor role was a position elected by the Knights to represent their voice in Council. Advisers did not have a vote. We were meant to inform Councillors of the membership’s desires to better inform their votes. We were also to bring proposals for policy change to Council for them to consider. In turn, we’re were to inform the wider membership of what was happening in Council to make it more transparent. Their were five of us elected by the Knights in an election that Council had no say in.

We were all very eager to make changes, but Council was a bit cautious and quite frankly, some felt threatened. We did not understand going in how slowly things work in Council, and certain Councillors also did not respond well to our demands for immediate action. The communication became toxic and two Advisers resigned over it (Zenchi and my own Teaching Master tzb). Tzb had his own personal battle with a few Councillors that spilled over into the public forums and crap hit the fan in a big way.

The remaining three Advisers got caught in the middle and got beat up by both sides. Members accused us of being weak, or even worse, traitors. Council’s response was “I told you so, Knights can’t handle the real business of this Temple.” Any attempt at being transparent was met with mistrust and doubt, as it still is. I don’t believe I have ever lied to anyone here about my actions or intentions, but I still am not trusted by many simply because of a badge under my name. Ironically, I had access to Council forums long before as a Security Officer, but I guess that doesn’t matter.

I understand the mistrust based on some pretty egregious actions in the past, but it is time to move forward. It is in pardoning that we are pardoned. Forgive us if we move more slowly and carefully this time. We’ve all been burned before.

Jedi Senan,
Advisors give advice to the council, they are involved in the process.
What I was suggesting was someone to just watch the process, without getting involved in any way.
Then if anyone asks what is being done about such and such.
The monitor can answer.
By not being involved, the monitor will have loyalty to the truth.

Stephen wrote: Jedi Senan,
Advisors give advice to the council, they are involved in the process.
What I was suggesting was someone to just watch the process, without getting involved in any way.
Then if anyone asks what is being done about such and such.
The monitor can answer.
By not being involved, the monitor will have loyalty to the truth.

So... Jedi Whistle-blowers?

Advisory did a good enough job ensuring we knew what was going on upstairs as it was. I do hope we get new Advisory members (or single member) in the future to continue that work.

Reason I'm mentioning single member is because if the advisory council position leads into a potential Council position, well... last thing we need is every active knight eventually ending up on council. So maybe one a time going forward?

Why is that the last thing we need? Knights need to do something other than stand around looking pretty with orange badges and train more knights doing the same.

steamboat28 wrote: Why is that the last thing we need? Knights need to do something other than stand around looking pretty with orange badges and train more knights doing the same.

Whats the point of a council if everyone ends up on it. Rather than have their knights sit pretty, the council should be using them, realising a goal and finding knights to head certain tasks.

They have done this, of course, but whom will do the delegating if all the knights are on council?

Its not a Knights job to train other knights to be knights. Its a Knight's job to train apprentices to be knights. If knights are sitting pretty and doing nothing I'd have to equate that to their training.

Who's doing the delegating now? Is it the Council, or individual offices? What's the point of a council that never delegates? If leaders do everything themselves, they spend too little time actually leading, and none preparing the next generation to lead.

steamboat28 wrote: Who's doing the delegating now? Is it the Council, or individual offices? What's the point of a council that never delegates? If leaders do everything themselves, they spend too little time actually leading, and none preparing the next generation to lead.

Well, technically the council should be delegating. Chain of command has been something thats followed me throughout my life.

Ideally (if it was up to me) it would go like this:
Council proposes idea and creates plan
If council decides to go forward
Council delegates to offices
Offices delegate within their own, even reaching beyond to call for volunteers if needed
All the while the Adviser keeps track of everything and keeps the general populous up to date on whats going on.

(Heck, if anything this adviser position looks a lot like the council secretary position... why aren't we filling that role?)

If the leaders are doing all the work, they're not leading, as you said. Delegating is a leaders greatest tool, and has severed me well over my lifetime.

Actually, the Council Secretary role is being addressed currently. More to come.

We’re also considering chain of command and delegation in our talks of revising some policy. Keep in mind, we do still have to operate under Texas law as it applies to 501c3 charities and their board of directors.