So i guess everyone is leaving..?

Trisskar wrote: I created a thread reaching out to all members in need and didn't receive any requests save a bunch of banter about my choices.

How can I, an Apprentice, better reach out to you new members Nami? Asakura Shoji? Private PM's? Most times I rarely know who is new and when. "Member" and "Guest" status holds both new and old member's and I hate to pry/nag So just trying to figure out how I can be of better help if/when there is a next time.

Keep an eye on introductory posts.

Nami wrote:

Trisskar wrote: I created a thread reaching out to all members in need and didn't receive any requests save a bunch of banter about my choices.

How can I, an Apprentice, better reach out to you new members Nami? Asakura Shoji? Private PM's? Most times I rarely know who is new and when. "Member" and "Guest" status holds both new and old member's and I hate to pry/nag So just trying to figure out how I can be of better help if/when there is a next time.

Keep an eye on introductory posts.

Nami, thank you you're point is the best lesson I could have learned from all of this! I am sorry I should have been a little more open with you guys and shared what I knew was going on (not a whole lot) but what was in my field of vision in an objective way (admittedly hard). I admit that I have emotion invested here so things like this dig deep and hurt sometimes. But, this is no excuse to leave those most important in the dark. Br. John thank you because what you said is true and was a very objective statement to what is actually going on. Triss, you are a great example of whom a Jedi should be .

In the end Nami and everyone who wants to know what was happening, (from the info I have) there is a lot of uncertainty and clashes of ideals in this area right now, that caused a chasm between us and caused casualties we ignored. The thing is we are going to heal and figure out things will move from here. It will just take us some time, I urge you to continue your studies and be open and ask like you have been. You have helped us be accountable to ourselves and that is very very important.

Much Peace and Love in the Force,
Kobos

Ps. I like that pic Triss

Kobos wrote: Nami, thank you you're point is the best lesson I could have learned from all of this! I am sorry I should have been a little more open with you guys and shared what I knew was going on (not a whole lot) but what was in my field of vision in an objective way (admittedly hard). I admit that I have emotion invested here so things like this dig deep and hurt sometimes. But, this is no excuse to leave those most important in the dark. Br. John thank you because what you said is true and was a very objective statement to what is actually going on. Triss, you are a great example of whom a Jedi should be .

In the end Nami and everyone who wants to know what was happening, (from the info I have) there is a lot of uncertainty and clashes of ideals in this area right now, that caused a chasm between us and caused casualties we ignored. The thing is we are going to heal and figure out things will move from here. It will just take us some time, I urge you to continue your studies and be open and ask like you have been. You have helped us be accountable to ourselves and that is very very important.

Much Peace and Love in the Force,
Kobos

Ps. I like that pic Triss

Thanks for this. I was worried I came on too harsh.

Nami wrote:

Trisskar wrote: I created a thread reaching out to all members in need and didn't receive any requests save a bunch of banter about my choices.

How can I, an Apprentice, better reach out to you new members Nami? Asakura Shoji? Private PM's? Most times I rarely know who is new and when. "Member" and "Guest" status holds both new and old member's and I hate to pry/nag So just trying to figure out how I can be of better help if/when there is a next time.

Keep an eye on introductory posts.

Bingo. Look at who has replied to my intro post from 17 days ago: 6 people on the day I posted, 2 others in the past day. Special note no one from the IP team replied to the thread (noting that Brick replied via PM) except for Kobos, who posted today, and I'd think that they in particular might want to be looking at new members and following up to see if we wanted to do IPs or were confused about starting, etc.

To be clear, this is just an observation--I'm not having any kind of dramatic emotional response to any of this, because I'm not deeply emotionally invested here...yet. I'm not trying to file complaints. I just think that there has probably been more outreach in the past which may be why people are confused about why the more recent newbies are confused. Therefore, I'm just listing the facts of what happened to me as a relative newcomer so people can see where stuff broke down. I'm not sure how it's supposed to work--I only know my own experience.

To the point that some people have made as to what any new person really needs to know about the stuff happening above our pay grade: it is really helpful to know that there is a skeleton crew and that there are some distractions right now and that's why newcomer outreach is worse than usual (I mean, I hope this isn't usual ). That the issues may be administrative on paper, but when major changes are being made people are going to get stressed out (because we're human) so sorry if some of that is spilling over. Don't panic--this, too, shall pass. That it's worth it for us to keep doing my IP (I mean, right now some of us are legitimately unsure because some of the rumors make it sound like shutdown is imminent in 3, 2, 1...) and that guidance is there for us if we need it.

@Brick, I'm not sure the IP team is functioning beyond you, or if it is who's doing what may need to be updated on the IP part of the website? I got absolutely no reply to my initial "Hey, I've started my journal" PM, and I haven't sent out others to other people because I'm assuming you all are busy because of stuff going on. I just kind of put that all on hold for the moment until things blew over. I'm listening to/reading the materials and writing, but am not polishing and posting because I don't have the foggiest if we even have an entirely functional IP team right now or, as I said above, if it's worth it because will TOTJO continue to exist (and will the people who made me want to be here still be here?). I see Kit stepped down today and so I'm sure more reshuffling of duties will happen. It's cool, I'm waiting it out, but I'm just observing it doesn't necessarily appear to be functioning as normal.

Not having a working application for a while also left newcomers in limbo. Again, I understand stuff breaks and needs to be fixed, and that it appears to be working again now, but it's one more thing that leads to not-the-smoothest introduction for newcomers at the moment.

Perhaps people can see where this combination of things makes it looks a little more chaotic and unwelcoming for new people right now than it may have been when you joined, and why we might therefore kind of want to know what's going on.

Asakura Shoji wrote: Special note no one from the IP team replied to the thread (noting that Brick replied via PM) except for Kobos, who posted today,

The IP Team has a document that your name gets added to when you start a Journal. Due to the fact that a lot of people start, but only a few continue, people are probably holding back a bit to make sure that newcomers are here for the 'long haul' as it were. That's maybe why you haven't heard directly from anyone yet.

I've set up a new thread regarding newcomers so as to not to derail this one further which can be found here

Asakura Shoji wrote:

Nami wrote:

Trisskar wrote: I created a thread reaching out to all members in need and didn't receive any requests save a bunch of banter about my choices.

How can I, an Apprentice, better reach out to you new members Nami? Asakura Shoji? Private PM's? Most times I rarely know who is new and when. "Member" and "Guest" status holds both new and old member's and I hate to pry/nag So just trying to figure out how I can be of better help if/when there is a next time.

Keep an eye on introductory posts.

Bingo. Look at who has replied to my intro post from 17 days ago: 6 people on the day I posted, 2 others in the past day. Special note no one from the IP team replied to the thread (noting that Brick replied via PM) except for Kobos, who posted today, and I'd think that they in particular might want to be looking at new members and following up to see if we wanted to do IPs or were confused about starting, etc.

To be clear, this is just an observation--I'm not having any kind of dramatic emotional response to any of this, because I'm not deeply emotionally invested here...yet. I'm not trying to file complaints. I just think that there has probably been more outreach in the past which may be why people are confused about why the more recent newbies are confused. Therefore, I'm just listing the facts of what happened to me as a relative newcomer so people can see where stuff broke down. I'm not sure how it's supposed to work--I only know my own experience.

To the point that some people have made as to what any new person really needs to know about the stuff happening above our pay grade: it is really helpful to know that there is a skeleton crew and that there are some distractions right now and that's why newcomer outreach is worse than usual (I mean, I hope this isn't usual ). That the issues may be administrative on paper, but when major changes are being made people are going to get stressed out (because we're human) so sorry if some of that is spilling over. Don't panic--this, too, shall pass. That it's worth it for us to keep doing my IP (I mean, right now some of us are legitimately unsure because some of the rumors make it sound like shutdown is imminent in 3, 2, 1...) and that guidance is there for us if we need it.

@Brick, I'm not sure the IP team is functioning beyond you, or if it is who's doing what may need to be updated on the IP part of the website? I got absolutely no reply to my initial "Hey, I've started my journal" PM, and I haven't sent out others to other people because I'm assuming you all are busy because of stuff going on. I just kind of put that all on hold for the moment until things blew over. I'm listening to/reading the materials and writing, but am not polishing and posting because I don't have the foggiest if we even have an entirely functional IP team right now or, as I said above, if it's worth it because will TOTJO continue to exist (and will the people who made me want to be here still be here?). I see Kit stepped down today and so I'm sure more reshuffling of duties will happen. It's cool, I'm waiting it out, but I'm just observing it doesn't necessarily appear to be functioning as normal.

Not having a working application for a while also left newcomers in limbo. Again, I understand stuff breaks and needs to be fixed, and that it appears to be working again now, but it's one more thing that leads to not-the-smoothest introduction for newcomers at the moment.

Perhaps people can see where this combination of things makes it looks a little more chaotic and unwelcoming for new people right now than it may have been when you joined, and why we might therefore kind of want to know what's going on.

I got caught up in a lot of stuff and forgot my mission here, I'm sorry Asakura though we have had some good conversations in the chat, which I chill in when I can but I'm here for Pm's and stuff if you need; I still feel like I got some stuff to do still but, I failed in my duties and for that I must apologize to you all.

Seppuku is an option should you say the word (*removes button up kneels on floor, grabs scissors, students are staring at me so an answer soon would be good. )

Brick wrote:

Asakura Shoji wrote: Special note no one from the IP team replied to the thread (noting that Brick replied via PM) except for Kobos, who posted today,

The IP Team has a document that your name gets added to when you start a Journal. Due to the fact that a lot of people start, but only a few continue, people are probably holding back a bit to make sure that newcomers are here for the 'long haul' as it were. That's maybe why you haven't heard directly from anyone yet.

I've set up a new thread regarding newcomers so as to not to derail this one further which can be found here

It's possible more people would be here for the long haul if people made them feel more welcome, if more people took an interest in them.

Nami wrote:
It's possible more people would be here for the long haul if people made them feel more welcome, if more people took an interest in them.

I was thinking that as I typed it Nami :laugh:

I think there's probably a lot of truth in that.

That being said, in the time since you joined there have been over 150 accounts created, thats a lot of people for us to interact with :laugh:

Brick wrote:

Nami wrote:
It's possible more people would be here for the long haul if people made them feel more welcome, if more people took an interest in them.

I was thinking that as I typed it Nami :laugh:

I think there's probably a lot of truth in that.

That being said, in the time since you joined there have been over 150 accounts created, thats a lot of people for us to interact with :laugh:

That's true, but not everyone starts the IP or makes an introductory post.

Nami wrote: That's true, but not everyone starts the IP or makes an introductory post.

Understood.

Drop me a PM, I'd be happy to offer you any assistance I can with the IP etc

Trisskar wrote:

Nami wrote:

Trisskar wrote: I created a thread reaching out to all members in need and didn't receive any requests save a bunch of banter about my choices.

How can I, an Apprentice, better reach out to you new members Nami? Asakura Shoji? Private PM's? Most times I rarely know who is new and when. "Member" and "Guest" status holds both new and old member's and I hate to pry/nag So just trying to figure out how I can be of better help if/when there is a next time.

Keep an eye on introductory posts.

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This was a very "Jedi" response *Triskar, thank you for being an example.

Gotta also remember we are all volunteers and have personal lives and our training too and when there's stuff like this going on it consumes a lot of time too. Heck I got 3 jobs and still put a lot of time here but I have my limits too.

Until today hardly anyone was doing anything. So many people have stepped up to the plate now. I appreciate all of you who stepped up. I have a lot more hope in this place now than I did this morning.

Here comes a Knight to barge in on the conversation! :ohmy: I do have access and answers that many here don't have, so please, ask away and I will try to answer.

I will do my best to address a few points here from a Knight's perspective and as someone holding an office here. To begin with, this Temple is not "in flames" or collapsing. Everyone is not leaving. There are transitions and changes being discussed, but they are due to this place growing, not dying. There are logistical matters (membership processing and rank updates), legal matters (bylaws to be updated as we are a 501c3 charitable organization bound by the laws of Texas and the U.S.), website and server matters (our server is in France and we are bound by international laws as well), I.T. matters (as of now we have one guy doing all of the work to keep this site secure from hacking and functioning correctly), and more.

Yes, some people will be frustrated with all of this bureaucracy and leave, but others will arrive or return. A Jedi's path is ultimately their own, and we all have to decide where the Force is leading us. As of now, my place is still here, but that doesn't mean I can't also be elsewhere.

I have been on this site for four years. When I joined, there were far fewer members and this place would be a ghost town some days. My introduction post received just six replies on my first day as well, and there was no IP Team or welcoming committee or any of that. I had to click on the FAQ and find my own way for a bit. We've come a long way in that sense, and we continue to strive to improve.

That being said, we are an online church with hundreds that arrive here monthly. Let's compare that to an actual church. If I were to walk into a Catholic church for the first time on Sunday, I may or may not be greeted by six people. I might not be greeted by anyone. I would take a seat in the pews and hopefully get to know someone sitting near me. The point is, it would be on me to introduce myself and make my presence known. I would need to ask the questions I have, not wait for someone to ask me. This might not be the most compassionate way to welcome new members to a Catholic church, but it is the reality I have experienced at many of them. Here at TOTJO we are trying to be better.

Now consider that we are a worldwide organization of Jedi speaking many languages, from varying cultures, with a huge variety of baggage that we each bring with us. Some come in like a wrecking ball and others are very quiet. We do our best to accommodate both, but the loud ones tend to require more of our attention. It is disappointing that we have failed some new members and I am not here to make excuses. I simply ask for your patience as we try to make a spiritual home that is welcoming to everyone.

As Jedi, we are to be compassionate and helpful, but we also walk our own paths with self determination and courage. Use this opportunity to help us make this place better. Join our ranks and give us ideas. Welcome newcomers you see who post an introduction. Be the change you want to see and we will notice.

My PM is open to anyone who ever feels in the dark or left out. I will tell you everything I can share and I will be honest about it.

Yea....I stopped responding to Introductory Threads because nearly 80% of those new members don't even stick around for the first or three days.

Its a hard balance but with communication and trial/error im sure we will find solutions!

Trisskar wrote: Yea....I stopped responding to Introductory Threads because nearly 80% of those new members don't even stick around for the first or three days.

99% arent here after six months - three months even.
Chicken-or-egg conundrum? Maybe, but I think people tend to go where they want to be, those who want to be here will stay and those who dont, wont.

OB1Shinobi wrote:
Same. 98% of you wont be here in six months. Maybe retention would be higher if more people converged on new members. Chicken or egg conundrum? Lets talk about it after youve been here for a year or so and seen how many people come through.

You won't know unless you try. Even if people don't stick around, I refuse to believe that putting time and effort into people who are interested in this church would be anything but beneficial. We need to show people that we care, for the sake of caring.

Nami wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote:
Same. 98% of you wont be here in six months. Maybe retention would be higher if more people converged on new members. Chicken or egg conundrum? Lets talk about it after youve been here for a year or so and seen how many people come through.

You won't know unless you try. Even if people don't stick around, I refuse to believe that putting time and effort into people who are interested in this church would be anything but beneficial. We need to show people that we care, for the sake of caring.

Agreed. I find those you put time into, the ones you greet and help in those first few days stick around. If not for Avalonslight, for example, I would not have stuck around for long after joining... and well, now look at me.

It is simply good etiquette to greet new people. This is a small thing that I do to make people feel welcome. I greet every person who posts in the introduction thread since I returned from my overseas deployments. It does not take very long to write a simple hello, and I get tells from people with questions, probably because I am one of the few Knights who do greet new people coming in the door.

The newcomers, guests are getting a lot more attention that it used to be. It has gotten better. It could always be better. But as has been said, this is our own Journey, our own Path and we must take ownership of it. If you need aid, have questions, never wait for the answer to come to you. It may or may not. Seek it out. Ask any of us, Knights, Apprentices, Novices, Initiates, members, Guests, wisdom and insight may be gleaned from any rank.

Send any of us a PM, ask in the forums, start a topic, we are all here to help each other grow.