So i guess everyone is leaving..?

You will be greatly missed River.

In times like these, I remember what my master told me.....I'm here for my growth. This place, while full of issues and things behind closed doors, has been the start of my personal path.

My master has committed himself and I have committed myself to our shared apprenticeship and I will not break that. I too will stay and lurk around, my focus will be my apprenticeship, my master, and my dear friends whom I've come to love.....I will also be here for anyone who has needs and no one else to talk to.

I am a Jedi.

I've heard this sentiment before.. and it wasn't one I shared until today.

I really don't think the Temple gives a crap about anyone that can't see the Apprentice boards.

Cause if they did, they wouldn't leave us in the dust with only gossip to base anything on. I came to this place as a sanctuary or a place to heal. I know that people have bigger things to worry about than newbies.. but damn, I figured a church would care about new members.

Trust me when I say that I care about new members. My goals, my plans, my suggestions are for the benefit of new members. It's just hard to know what you know and what you don't, and what you should know and we're failing at giving out that information.

I am sorry we're failing.

steamboat28 wrote: Trust me when I say that I care about new members. My goals, my plans, my suggestions are for the benefit of new members. It's just hard to know what you know and what you don't, and what you should know and we're failing at giving out that information.

I am sorry we're failing.

The only thread we had to glimpse at anything going on was moved to the Apprentice forum.

A move I disagreed with. Leaving new members in the dark isn't an answer, but scaring them with biased information overload isn't a good solution either. Walking the middle path is a difficult prospect at this juncture, but I will do what I can to enlighten anyone who asks.

You know I love you, Steam.. but even you've been hiding in the Knight's chat.

I've been trying to help find a resolution. My posting here has been irregular since things started to get tense, and I apologize for that. It's just that usually, by the time I get home from work, I'm over talking about it due to oversaturation of the subject in my faceholes.

How can I help?

steamboat28 wrote: I've been trying to help find a resolution. My posting here has been irregular since things started to get tense, and I apologize for that. It's just that usually, by the time I get home from work, I'm over talking about it due to oversaturation of the subject in my faceholes.

How can I help?

I think a lot of effort is being put into trying to find a resolution, but hot heads on both sides is making it a long and drawn out debate. Good time to study and learn about patience

That's the thing, that's what everyone is doing.. either that or leaving. Someone needs to f'n tell us what's going on. People have said that this place is a sinking ship. Some people have even said this place is gonna close down. We don't know anything except what the bitter and the loudmouths have said. There has been absolutely nothing official to tell anything. Being in the dark is not the answer. Gossip is not the answer. This isn't just making Knights leave. This is pushing away new members that only want to grow spiritually. That, in my belief, is what each and every one of you should try to prevent.. but it's not happening. You're in your own little world, and eff the rest of us.

Tellahane wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: I've been trying to help find a resolution. My posting here has been irregular since things started to get tense, and I apologize for that. It's just that usually, by the time I get home from work, I'm over talking about it due to oversaturation of the subject in my faceholes.

How can I help?

I think a lot of effort is being put into trying to find a resolution, but hot heads on both sides is making it a long and drawn out debate. Good time to study and learn about patience

And that is helpful for the new members how?

I'll sum it up. Some knights want to take over the management of The Order. I'd like to retire. I always wanted this place to get to a point where it ran fine without me or any other key person. This is easier said than done.

Nami wrote: That's the thing, that's what everyone is doing.. either that or leaving. Someone needs to f'n tell us what's going on. People have said that this place is a sinking ship. Some people have even said this place is gonna close down. We don't know anything except what the bitter and the loudmouths have said. There has been absolutely nothing official to tell anything. Being in the dark is not the answer. Gossip is not the answer. This isn't just making Knights leave. This is pushing away new members that only want to grow spiritually. That, in my belief, is what each and every one of you should try to prevent.. but it's not happening. You're in your own little world, and eff the rest of us.

It's people making comments like a "sinking ship" and putting out false gossip that is a cause of a lot of the problems. If anything were not effing the rest of you because this is a huge debate about how we take care of you, how we take care of the temple, and who should be the ones doing it, in essence were all having debates about how to best look after the members and apprentices and so on.

Tellahane wrote: It's people making comments like a "sinking ship" and putting out false gossip that is a cause of a lot of the problems. If anything were not effing the rest of you because this is a huge debate about how we take care of you, how we take care of the temple, and who should be the ones doing it, in essence were all having debates about how to best look after the members and apprentices and so on.

Actually, it's comments like this, saying that we don't need to know anything is making things worse.

Nami wrote:

Tellahane wrote: It's people making comments like a "sinking ship" and putting out false gossip that is a cause of a lot of the problems. If anything were not effing the rest of you because this is a huge debate about how we take care of you, how we take care of the temple, and who should be the ones doing it, in essence were all having debates about how to best look after the members and apprentices and so on.

Actually, it's comments like this, saying that we don't need to know anything is making things worse.

I never said you don't need to know, but some darker sides are showing from the exhaustion and you don't need to be subjected to that part of it. When decisions become final you will be filled in with the full chunk, just as even I don't know fully what all is going on, just have a better idea then some. It is in our doctrine to protect and defend, that's whats being done.

Actually it's very easily done, and it seems to me as though the process is being made complicated for no reason at all. You say "I'm retiring, the council is in charge" and you let them take over. Let them sort out the politics of it all after that point. Why be concerned with what things will be post-retirement, if your plan is to let others run it all any way? After all, the point of retirement is... to walk away. And I'll be blunt, this continuing to ban people who disagree with you is a bit irrational if your intent is to retire anyway.

Just my thoughts. At this point I'm merely hoping for, though not currently seeing, a peaceful solution to everything's that's going on. I hope I'm wrong. I hope that this resolves in a way that leaves TOTJO running well, stronger, than it is now. But I do still think you're over-complicating the matter.

Avalonslight wrote: Actually it's very easily done, and it seems to me as though the process is being made complicated for no reason at all. You say "I'm retiring, the council is in charge" and you let them take over. Let them sort out the politics of it all after that point. Why be concerned with what things will be post-retirement, if your plan is to let others run it all any way? After all, the point of retirement is... to walk away. And I'll be blunt, this continuing to ban people who disagree with you is a bit irrational if your intent is to retire anyway.

Just my thoughts. At this point I'm merely hoping for, though not currently seeing, a peaceful solution to everything's that's going on. I hope I'm wrong. I hope that this resolves in a way that leaves TOTJO running well, stronger, than it is now. But I do still think you're over-complicating the matter.

There is a difference between peacefully disagree and being abrasive about it.

Tellahane wrote: I never said you don't need to know, but some darker sides are showing from the exhaustion and you don't need to be subjected to that part of it. When decisions become final you will be filled in with the full chunk, just as even I don't know fully what all is going on, just have a better idea then some. It is in our doctrine to protect and defend, that's whats being done.

Being neglected isn't protecting and defending us. It's mistreatment.

Nami wrote:

Tellahane wrote: I never said you don't need to know, but some darker sides are showing from the exhaustion and you don't need to be subjected to that part of it. When decisions become final you will be filled in with the full chunk, just as even I don't know fully what all is going on, just have a better idea then some. It is in our doctrine to protect and defend, that's whats being done.

Being neglected isn't protecting and defending us. It's mistreatment.

In what way are you feeling neglected specifically. What need of yours is not being met?

Tellahane wrote: I never said you don't need to know, but some darker sides are showing from the exhaustion and you don't need to be subjected to that part of it. When decisions become final you will be filled in with the full chunk, just as even I don't know fully what all is going on, just have a better idea then some. It is in our doctrine to protect and defend, that's whats being done.

For all our talk about needing more transparency, this is a really opaque answer.

I made a new thread on the topic for anyone still interested.